Thinking about chucking the pickups and getting an instrument mic

[Rob Gerety]

Anyone have any experience with this clip on type mic? http://www.bartlettmics.com/index.html

Looks similar to the Crown Charlie has seen around. But more readily available. I think the maker might have worked at Crown.

[Charlieshafer]

Never seen them, but the pedigree of the designers is pretty good! They look really nice, and come with a number of the accessories that Crown charges extra for, so it seems a really nice deal, from a price standpoint. I'm interested in trying one...

[pops1]

I have used a mic on a stand for decades and it works great. The mandolin is an easy instrument to mic. I have played a lot of dances and they are never as noisy as a bar and never a problem to mic. I have been playing in one of the bands i play with and using an amp because everyone else does and the amp is the instrument monitor, i have tried an amazing amount of pickups and ways to lug in and am never satisfied. The rest of the bands are all mic and i would like to use a mic with this one also, but then i would have to be in everyone's monitor so for that group i will plug in, but for the rest it's a mic on a stand. The clip on mics feed back to easy for me and you loose your volume control (distance from the mic). Go for the mic Rob, for the price and what you already have invested it's minimal. I use a Carvin about $125 condenser and it works very nice without having to be right on it like an SM 57. Also no proximity like the 57 has so if you get close it doesn't boost the bass response.

[Michael Eck]

For all the reasons that Paul Kotapish related, I carry a Shure PG-81 (budget condesnor) and an SM57 (or Beta 56A) in the jug band. I go to the dynamic if we're outdoors, to reduce wind noise.

In the duo I play in, we use a single large diaphragm mic.

I've come to prefer mics so much that now when I do solo singer/songwriter gigs I also use a single large diaphragm to cover voice and guitar.

[Dave Schimming]

I use the AT Pro37 on stage for both my guitar & mandolin. I have used a Shure 57 in the past but found I had to really get up on it particularly on mandolin to get any volume. The AT Pro37 allows me to stand back some and the sound is more natural to my ears.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

Rob, haven't seen the Bartlett mics. I use a DPA which works wonderfully but I am not a huge fan of the mounting system. The mounting system Bartlett has developed with the pro series mics seems killer...seems much better. Price is attractive as well. Wonder how all of the clip-ons stack up as far as quality and tone. DPA, Crown, and Audio Technica seem to be the ones most used.

[Jim Nollman]

There's another factor as well. I own both a Godin A8, and a fine sounding and loud acoustic mandolin. I perform a fair amount, but too often without the aid of a skillful sound guy. One result is that I often experience a problem of stage monitors not providing me with any real assurance of what my own part within the band actually sounds like. Or performing without any monitors at all. So it sometimes goes in the world of contra dances.

I tried the Godin onstage, through its own amp, both boosted and EQ'd through an LR Baggs PADI. Meanwhile, everyone else in the band still played through an assortment of mikes into one board. At that point it was very easy to hear myself, but I seemed even less capable to hear what the band's mix sounded like. I could tell that my localized amped sound was not merging with all the rest of it coming through the system speakers.

Playing in a band seeking an acoustic sound, I have concluded that individual amps only work well when outputted into the one board. I eventually gave up on the Godin for stage work, and use it now, entirely as a studio instrument.

Only after retiring the Godin, did I finally perceive that I can hear my own acoustic mandolin fairly well without proper monitoring. Makes me wonder if that's the reason bluegrass players hold their own mandolins at chest height. To answer this thread's main question, I don't use a stage mic, but a Schertler plugged straight into the board, with no preamp, which I like quite a lot. One negative result, is that, in a band where some members occasionally like to invite friends onstage to play along, I have been known to walk off that same stage if too many players means I can no longer hear my mandolin.

[Rob Gerety]

One result is that I often experience a problem of stage monitors not providing me with any real assurance of what my own part within the band actually sounds like. Or performing without any monitors at all. So it sometimes goes in the world of contra dances.

That mirrors my experience. Drives my crazy.

[Paul Kotapish]

I my experience, cranking one's own sound in an amp or in the nearest monitor makes it much more difficult to stay in the moment--and in the groove--with the band. It's just much too easy to start listening to just yourself, and as soon as that happens, the chances for fragmenting escalate.

[300win]

For a while now I've been considering chucking my pickups (guitar and mandolin) and all the related stuff - pre amps and eq etc. - and getting a decent instrument mic. I don't need anything real expensive or fancy i don't think. Use will be mostly for live performance - contra dance band type stuff. I don't play out all that much so it just seems like such a hassle struggling with everything you need to make two instruments sound natural using pick ups.

My question - before I jump - is this: if you have an Audio Technica Pro 37 mic - how close to the mic do need to be in a live band situation to get good results? Also, should I expect to get bleed from nearby instruments - like fiddles and accordions?

Should I consider a different mic? Again - I'm typically plugging into a good PA system at a dance venue.

wise decision Rob in my opinion. No amps , pickups, = simple, which I think you will enjoy more. You will get the purest tone from all acoustic, but I have to confess, I am biased in favor of all acoustic no amplification.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

Mic clipped on instrument through amp. Direct out to board. Use volume pedal or volume boost for solos. All issues are taken care of here. Stomp pedal, solos pop and you can hear yourself. Stomp again and you are in the mix and blending well. This set up has made everything so much better for me. You get the "Mic" tone with more volume, control over your volume level for solos and your rythym is more uniform and even. Truly acoustic is great unless you need to be heard.

[Rob Gerety]

but I have to confess, I am biased in favor of all acoustic no amplification.

Me too. But sometimes you have to amplify. You can't play a contra dance without it unless its a tiny little dance. I've done it - its really not what people expect.

[Tbone]

Mic clipped on instrument through amp. Direct out to board. Use volume pedal or volume boost for solos. All issues are taken care of here. Stomp pedal, solos pop and you can hear yourself. Stomp again and you are in the mix and blending well. This set up has made everything so much better for me. You get the "Mic" tone with more volume, control over your volume level for solos and your rythym is more uniform and even. Truly acoustic is great unless you need to be heard.

How do you connect the boost pedals, if the mic has an xlr?

[300win]

Well there you have me, I ain't never played nothing but Bluegrass, no contra, although I do pick Scots/Irish tunes, just not in any shows. Just old, old fashioned I guess in all ways.

[Rob Gerety]

I ain't never played nothing but Bluegrass, no contra, although I do pick Scots/Irish tunes, just not in any shows. Just old, old fashioned I guess in all ways.

I probably fall into the old fashioned category myself. But, keep in mind that contra dancing has been around a lot longer than Bluegrass. Bluegrass is new fangled compared to contra dance music. If your playing some old Scottish and Irish stuff then your playing the roots of contra dance music.

[Ben Milne]

one mic I don't think has been mentioned yet is the DPA 4099. - while i haven't yet had a chance to try it myself it certainly gets very favourable opinions on both instrument and ProAudio forums. perfect for getting the acoustic tone of micing an instrument and freeing one up to move around the stage

How do you connect the boost pedals, if the mic has an xlr?

I'd think the amp being used as a monitor has a send/return loop.

[jim_n_virginia]

Yes. No singing (or certainly extremely rare) in contra dance stuff.

I play Contra dances too. Usually about 2 or 3 a year. We don't use amplification at all but then again when I play with this group we are a small orchestra (20-25 people) so we are plenty loud enough.

Were it me and I played in a smaller group that needed to be amplified I wouldn't even use a condenser mic I'd use an SM-57 or it's equivelent. Put it on a boom mic stand and aim it right at the lower hole. Nice comfy chair with a mic in front and a drink cooler handy close by! Thats all I need to play all night!

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

My amp (schertler) has an insert and a their own branded volume pedal that changes the amps volume, not the line level volume. The pedal plugs directly into the amp. Many electric amps have boosts that go directly to the amp and not through the line. Same concept. Lots of amps have that funtionality. not only does it take away the xlr issue as there aren't volume pedals that I'm aware of that have XLR's in but it also helps with tone as their isn't anything between the mic and amp except for the xlr.

[Jim Nollman]

We've played some gigs with no amplification. I do enjoy it, because then you have to get really physical (but careful) banging away on your instrument, and also crafty with projecting your sound in order to find (and retain) the niche that let's your part be heard amidst the competing ambience, and/or the echoes within the room. If the gig attracts many more than 30 dancers, I probably wouldn't want to play without some sound reinforcement. It's worse for the caller, because even with lots of room noise, I can still focus on chopping my way through the songs or crosspicking melody predominantly on the E string to stay above the roar.

I'm with Virginia Jim:::no condensers onstage. Either try a dynamic mic, or even better, try an instrument mic. And yes, do try a Cafe search on the DPA-4099. I know Folded Path has a few of them, and raves about them. If i didn't already feel so well taken care of by my Schertler, this is what I'd probably buy. Whether you like the DPA or the Schertler, either way, your not struck standing in one spot all evening long.

Rob, if you can afford it, do check out both the Schertler and the DPA-4099.

[Pete Hicks]

A few years ago I took all the pickups off my acoustic instruments. I am in 3 acoustic bands, and we all use one central mike plus one in the bass. A few times a year I gig with my electric setup, a doubleneck Tele-mandolin, and a 5 string electric fiddle, thru a Fender Twin. For me, it works best to keep the acoustic music acoustic and the electric music electric.
I don't see the point of putting a pickup on a Gilchrist, Brock, or other fine mandolin. Why spend money to make your instrument sound worse? In bar situations, I just go electric.

[Rob Gerety]

Rob, if you can afford it, do check out both the Schertler and the DPA-4099.

I have a Schertler - only one - and I play two instruments. I use a Baggs M1 on my guitar. Schertler on my mandolin. So I can sell all that stuff (pick ups and pre amps) and buy a single instrument mic and an mic stand and I'm done.

[mandroid]

Rob , I think you got the self critic too prominent , borrow a mic and stand , see if that works before selling off your stuff ..

Tonemonster sold his mandolin then with in weeks was looking for another , again.

Hanging up the guitar and grabbing the mandolin from the same stand cant be too complicated.

if both are plugged in.