De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

[Jim Garber]

Dave I assume you are saying that there must have been DeMeglio mandolins for all those Italians to copy them. or else many of these guys could have worked for DeMeglio. Actually i wasn't saying that there were no DeMeglio only that the ones that have come to sale these days on the internet are largely in the UK.

One thing that would certainly help in this discussion would be a copy of Demeglio's patent. I haven;t a clue where to look tho. A search leads me to Italian patents but they go maybe back to the 1960s and that is it. Surely there must be a patent fir his sistema.

[MandolinoNapoletano]

What a great discussion!!!
I'm glad James (mandolino napoletano) alerted me to this one........

I have a few things to post this evening, but the first one is de Meglio copyists.....
All of the following makers had at least some of their models that seem to be near enough de Meglio copies.... some actually say 'sistema de Meglio' as mentioned above.......

Fratelli Bellini
Romito and Carbone
Luigi Caserta
Carlo Cristini
Frabcesco Donadoni
Luigi Dorigo
Gennaro Maglioni
Carlo Marazini
Marco Rebora
Carlo Rinaldi
Salvatore Rogis
Francesco Scarpa
and Valapiglia.

I can't imagine all these guys imported de Meglio mandolins from England just so they could copy them.... more later after I've cooked dinner. Regards to all, Dave

Wow that's a LOT of copies! What do you mean you "can't imagine all these guys imported de Meglio mandolins from England just so they could copy them" Are you rebutting the fact that someone claimed earlier that they might have not been made in Naples? If so I agree. How could all these luthiers from Napoli know about this mandolin if it wasn't made in Napoli?

[dave17120]

No problem, Jim, I was just throwing in my two-penneth. James certainly was worried that someone seemed to question whether de Meglios were in fact made in Naples....... my self I have no doubt.... at least two addresses in Naples on labels, and least two generations....... and plenty of copyists.

And on that subject....... a couple of photos. I have not been inside all the copyists that have come through my hands..... I only remove the top if I have to..... but these couple of photos seem to suggest to me that at least one of the copyists was NOT an employee whose name was maybe put on less well finished models.
One is the underside of a de Meglio top..... well finished in side and good quality wood. The other is a copyist I guess, Francesco Donadoni, much less well finished inside and out, and much poorer quality wood.

More in a bit, Dave

[dave17120]

Hello James, I finally found time to follow up your email........ yes, I am sure de Meglio made mandolins in Naples..... I've emailed a friend in Naples to see if he can find anything out about 'Sistema de Meglio' through the patents..... they must exist in Italy I guess. Dave

[dave17120]

I've checked on the online Naples maps, and the 2 addresses that appear on the de Meglio labels, Vico Lungo Gelso 53, (up to arouind 1900) and 14 Piazza Depretis (after 1900) both exist, and are fairly close together in old Naples near the harbour. I have a photo of a different label, but the address isn't visible.
Hopefully I will hear back from contact in Naples before too long.... Dave

[Martin Jonas]

I don't quite think that the existence of all these copyists has anything much to say about whether de Meglio served primarily a UK market or also had a significant turnover within Italy. There's a big difference between managing to get hold of a single specimen to copy, and Neapolitan music shops overflowing with De Meglio mandolins. Also, the De Meglio family clearly didn't work on their own: Victor has in the past said that he has been told (maybe he can tell us by whom) that the De Meglio shop made more than 10000 mandolin of the model 1A alone in the 20-odd years of the mandolin boom. There must have been legions of apprentices and assitant luthiers passing through the De Meglio shop, all of them aware that here was a product that was in very great demand and that they had at least a serviceable idea of how to make. I can see how they wanted a slice of the cake, and I can also see how this must have been very frustrating to the De Meglio family, leading to the ludicrous verbiage on their later labels. It must have been especially galling to see their brand identity diluted by plainly inferior imitations. I have a Carlo Rinaldi De Meglio clone, which is a reasonably pleasant instrument and on first glance looks a precise copy, but when seen side-by-side with a real one is plainly much cruder in the detailing and the craftsmanship.

I also note that the one maker that really seems to have sold exclusively to the UK market was Umberto Ceccherini, and there are no Ceccherini clones out there -- nobody clamoured to copy his suspended second soundboards.

I don't have any doubt that most of the labels one sees (and certainly the de Meglio, Ceccherini, Calace and Vinaccia ones) correspond to actual workshops and actual makers, based exactly where they say they were based. Some of the components may have been bought third-party, though. For example those unmistakeable de Meglio style scratchplates (also used by Ceccherini in a more filigrane execution) may well have been from a specialised maker doing nothing else. However, it would have been plainly unrealistic for each maker to develop an independent export trade and a dealer network, meaning that the real power was presumably in the hands of Naples-based agents of the UK (and other overseas) distributors, such as Alban Voigt. That situation is similar to the one that existed in Germany, where the wholesalers were so powerful and the individual small master luthier shops so disenfranchised that most instruments were made without any sort of label because the wholesalers deliberately wanted to be able to obscure the identity of the actual maker and treat the instruments as a commodity. The US went the opposite extreme: a small number of very-high volume makers supplying a much greater number of distributors and wholesalers, many of whom then relabelled the instruments with their own names in a perfunctury attempt at suggesting that they had some sort of input into the design and quality of the instruments.

Martin

[brunello97]

I am glad Dave is on the case.......Hopefully, some concrete information will eventually turn-up. A lot of breathlessness in this discussion and it will be good to have it get grounded. I don't think anyone was seriously implying that deMeglios were not built in Napoli. Maybe some jest or speculation to the contrary-related to their marketing in the UK, which has unfortunately caused our OP a bit of unnecessary concern. To play a de Meglio in person would convince anyone of its Italian origins. As to the list of copyists, I suggest a go-slow approach in the discussion for two reasons: 1. Are we even sure these labels were from actual 'makers' or are some perhaps from brokers or sellers? 2. What makes a mandolin a de Meglio copy? That it looks alike (side vent holes, a particular style scratch plate?) A label that says 'Sistema de Meglio' should be the standard for the moment in my view or we risk more speculation that hasn't necessarily served this conversation all so well. (But which has certainly made it enjoyable.....)

Mick

[vkioulaphides]

Victor has in the past said that he has been told (maybe he can tell us by whom) that the De Meglio shop made more than 10000 mandolin of the model 1A alone in the 20-odd years of the mandolin boom.

I did, indeed, and recall that this —unlike my other, free-associative verbiage— was something I actually read in some source— although, of course, I cannot verify the credibility of the source. Let me look, please, and see whether I can retrace my steps. Could it have been Janssens? I am going through his Geschiedenis van de Mandoline (The History of the Mandolin) these days in some detail, and at a less-infantile-than-before level of reading comprehension (although my Dutch is still truly rudimentary at best). Let me see if/how I can corroborate my claim of yesteryear; I do recall distinctly that it was not "improvised", but based on some source.

Cheers,

Victor

[Martin Jonas]

Mick,

I don't think it's particularly difficult to identify an instrument as a De Meglio clone: it's a De Meglio if is says so on the label, and it's a clone if it has all of the De Meglio design features but a different label. These design features add up to much more than the broad similarity of the various Vinaccia-like mandolins of the period, they are straight copycat:

- All-in-one scratchplate/rosette unit with silver/MOP vine inlay.
- String downholder.
- Side holes.
- Tulipwood binding.
- Bridge with brass saddle.
- Nut with brass spacer next to brass zero fret.
- Rectangular headstock with rectangular closed brass tuners.
- Large dots on 5, 7, 10, 12, small dots on 15, 17.
- Tailpiece with four brass string anchors.
- From 1898 onwards, aluminium decorations nailed onto the headstock.

One explanation for this extreme degree of standardisation across mandolins with all these different labels might be the one suggested by Mick, i.e. they were all (or most) made by De Meglio and brokers or wholesellers applied their own labels. This is what one might call the American business model: Lyon & Healy or the Larson Brothers effectively did this.

I don't think that explanation washes for De Meglio, though: if they made all these instruments themselves, then why add dire warnings against counterfeiters to their labels? Also, while some of the other-label instruments may have fine workmanship, the ones I have seen plainly weren't made to the standard of properly labelled De Meglios. I tried for a long time to convince myself that my Carlo Rinaldi was actually a De Meglio relabelled by a wholesaler, but after seeing and playing a number of actual De Meglios I had to sadly wave goodbye to that comforting notion. There may not have been an actual Carlo Rinaldi, but I don't think it was a pseudonym for De Meglio.

While we're discussing them, another mystery is what precisely the model numbers on the labels mean. What is the difference between a model 1A, a model A and a model B -- they all look exactly the same! I have heard the suggestion that they were tested for tone once completed and graded/priced depending on how good they sounded. Intriguing notion, but I am sceptical of its veracity. I don't have a full database of labels against appointments (Jim, Mick and/or Dave are probably better placed), but I seem to remember that the higher numbers, model 2 and upwards, correspond to the fancier inlaid models, a look that I have always thought was particularly ill-suited to De Meglio instruments, with all of the fancy ones looking plain vulgar (unlike, say, the high-end Ceccherini ones which are much more tasteful).

Martin

[MandolinoNapoletano]

I thought I'd upload a BETTER foto of my label guys. It's not in bad condition for 114 years old. I will also translate the whole label.

" PROVIDERS OF THE ROYAL FAMILY "
KNIGHT JOHN DE MEGLIO AND SON
FACTORY OF PIANOS AND WAREHOUSE OF FOREIGN PIANOS (The second part of this phrase makes no sense in modern day Italian. It's anyones guess. I asked many other italians and no one has an idea. We all think it just means he was shipping out pianos to other countries.)
HOUSE FOUNDED IN 1800

WE CONSTRUCT CLASS A FINE MANDOLAS AND MANDOLINS
DRILLED HARMONIC HOLES AND PRESSURIZED STRINGS ( REFERS TO THE PRESSURE THE STRING TENSIONER PUTS ON THE STRINGS)
GOLD MEDALS AT THE NEAPOLITAN WORKSHOP EXHIBITION
YEAR:1896 MODEL: 1(A) SERIAL NUMBER: 2020
Vico Lungo del Geso 53 ( ROUGHLY TRANSLATED 53 MULBERRY RD)


To those that use a translator. It doesn't translate directly. I know it. Before you shoot me down, I know both languages. The translation is right according to how vocabulary shifts when changing languages. When translating I just remembered I overlooked the fact that Giovanni was a Knight. This is the connection with the royal family. He was a Knight of the Royal Family. There is no possible way anyone could MAKE UP this cazzata for advertising. It's too much in depth. And then I know EXACTLY where Vico Lungo Del Geso is. WARNING to POTENTIAL skepticists: This IS HEAVY MAFIA ZONE. IT IS ALSO A NEIGHBORHOOD OF MANY YOUNG GANGS. IT IS DENSELY POPULATED AND VERY VERY DANGEROUS. IF YOU ARE IN NAPLES DO NOT GO HERE. YOU WILL BE ROBBED AND OR KILLED. I know the area very well.

That being said it was always a TYPICAL neapolitan poor area. The spanish started it about 500 years ago, and it's VERY neapolitan-esque.

The questions have been answered. Giovanni was a knight to the Royal family and a musical instrument exporter in general. The street address is still there and it is in a typical area where a luthier would be found years ago. That being said -- I still see you guys comparing Italian liuthiers with some random Chicago american manufacturers. You can't compare American companies with Italian companies. American companies had EFFICIENT MACHINES with some man work. Neapolitans had -- well they had efficient hands in general.

But still you say " Well it's a big assumption" Let's consider some more facts.

"In 1882 Vincenzo de Meglio gathered in 3 volumes comprised of those of Cottrau (A guy that took to publishing some neapolitan songs) in which it takes back all the anonymous popular songs and then those artists of the first part of the 1800s that goes by the title of "Echo of Naples"
Source: http://www.trioaragona.com/storia/il_XIX_secolo.html

This evidence shows that this de Meglio family was HEAVILY involved in Neapolitan song and EXACTLY around the time Knight John de Meglio was making mandolins. Therefore the assumption that this was a fake-put-on-name or randomly selected instrument made by other makers or warehouses is laid to rest. This family was heavily involved in the Neapolitan art tradition.
Hope this helps guys.

[brunello97]

My hunch is that this thread probably carries on a longer discussion about the de Meglio company than anything in quite some time. Cudos to M-N for launching it and for all who are sustaining it. I have a few more apples to roll out for the fairest. The first is a mandolin a la "Sistema de Meglio" from one Arturo Farini, who doesn't appear on Dave's list, which apparently displays none of the long list of clone traits that Martin has set out--a list which is comprehensive cloning traits enough for me to feel 'Dolly Good' about. And a couple more (later) de Meglio labels: one that refers to Vicenzo and Giovanni De Meglio (socii) and one to Vicenzo as successore. Was this Giovanni the knight? How would we know? The last one has a lengthy caveat in English and yet another address 14, Piazza N. Amore--which hopefully isn't a place to avoid.

Lots of interesting mention of patents, prizes etc. that ought to show up somewhere in some records somewhere. I like the 'fretboard of crystal' description--purple enough for me to acknowledge the De Meglios' marketing skill even if I believe them.

But as this conversation tightens up, it would be wise to avoid uninformed assumptions viz Chicago builders. L+H did operate at all levels of the market--writing them off as 'machine made' does little justice to their high end work, particularly their archtop line-which apparently remain some of the most desired mandolins around. The Larson Bros. shouldn't be too easily lumped in with L+H in this regard--I'm sure Martin is aware of that, if not others contributing to this discussion. Their shop and production was nowhere near the production capacity of either L+H or, apparently, De Meglio, if Victor's mysterious German source is to be believed. They operated at a far higher end of the food chain and one doesn't find the broad array of labels seen on low end L+H products. M-N, the valuable comparison to Lyon and Healy was in regard to their business model, certainly shaped by many visits to Europe and no doubt to Napoli. The many smaller shops on the east coast operated under different methods and wound up doing work for a variety of 'labeled' companies at least during the time period that our labeled De Meglios reference. Marketing practices in the eastern US probably weren't all so foreign to those in the UK at this time--which was before the big boom in L+H production.

If De Meglio made pianos--then that would suggest a fairly substantive factory. 10,000 mandolins is a lot of mandolins. If they were a warehouse/distributor for foreign pianos (seems a likely meaning of the description, M-N) you would expect such a place would show up in records/descriptions somewhere. When did they go out of business? Would newspaper or journals have their advertisements? Phone books? I suppose there are a lot of places to look for clues when in town.

Keep it stoked, gentlemen.

Mick

[dave17120]

I have some feelers out in Naples, so perhaps I'll have a little more information later........

Arturo Farini: I know I left him off the list, he indeed does state he used 'Sistema de Meglio', but the instrument that carried that label bore no resemblance to a de Meglio at all. A digression I know, but interesting nonetheless. Just an advertising gimmick perhaps. Attached are photos of the label (sorry about the quality) and the mandolin it was in. Dave

[vkioulaphides]

A few years ago, a denizen of the Café --was it Bob A?-- had bought, or was considering buying a latter-day de Meglio, one from the WWI era, or a bit later yet. I remember the conversation, as it revolved around the general deterioration of building materials: plastic instead of TS for the scratch-plate, cruder metal substitutes for what would have been "German silver", enamel-paste for the fingerboard-markers, and the like. (The same applies, of course, to the Calace firm, and to anyone trying to build things against the calamities of war; much to the suffering of its people, Naples has often had its famed bay and port blockaded by hostile fleets, its trade routes disrupted, etc. All that is self-explanatory.)

The point is that the ultimate demise of the de Meglio shop may be more recent that we may have imagined. And, of course, the more recent an event, the more vivid and substantive the information we may be able to find about it. If, say, we are looking at a business concern that finally bit the dust by the 1920's (or even later), that's hardly "prehistory". We should be able to find some hard evidence along the way.

Cheers,

Victor

[dave17120]

I have in my possession a short autobiography of Luciano Grimaldi, (1891-1960) a luthier based in Catania, written by his grand-daughter, which says that....
"..with the advent of fascism, the situation changed. The closure of trade with foreign countries, imposed by the regime, was the beginning of an inexorable decline..."
The fascists came to power in the mid 1920s in Italy, just before the great depression, when the Italian lira lost a great deal of its value. All this, when the popularity of the mandolin was being supplanted by that of the banjo..... in retrospect, its no wonder such a lot of the small instrument builders suddenly just seem to have ceased production.

Apparently Grimaldi managed to stay in business until WWII, but during the war the factory was obliterated, and while they took refuge in the countryside, their house was stripped of everything valuable. Sadly, I'm sure others must have suffered similarly.

[Graham McDonald]

The discussion about the 'Sistema de Meglio' raises the point of what exactly that is. The inside of the soundboard that Dave posted is pretty standard for a bowlback - transverse braces above and below the soundhole and another, slightly angled, brace slightly in front of the bridge. The re-enforcement plate over the centre join below the cant is bigger than others I have seen and the two square plates, presumably to support the string hold-down device behind the bridge are really the only difference in the way they are built. Interestingly the two 'Sistema de Meglio' mandolin pics that have been posted don't have the string tensioner, so that may not be the core of the 'Sistema de Meglio'. The only other thing I can think of might be the amount of arch in the soundboard as it is bent over the braces. This does vary a lot in Italian mandolins from a couple of mm up to 5-6mm, which can complicate the centre join of the soundboard below the cant

I am looking at this from the point of view of a builder, not a player. Any thoughts.

cheers

[Martin Jonas]

Graham,

I think the two Farini mandolin with the "Sistema De Meglio" labels posted by Mick and by Dave were posted precisely because they were not typical, and therefore it's a mystery why they are labelled such when to all the world they look like run-of-the-mill Vinaccia copies. I would think that the Farini labels are misleading and should be ignored for the purposes of this discussion.

My take is that the "Sistema De Meglio" is the sum total of the design features I had listed in one of my previous posts. Some of this is functional, some is design, and some is somewhere in between (e.g. does the stiffness of the oversized onlaid scratchplate affect tone compared to the smaller inlaid one used by Vinaccia or the assymmetric Embergher ones? Does the string downholder affect tone?).

It may be interesting to turn to my Ceccherinis again: I have two of them, one with double top and one without, the latter being the one featured in my Speranze Perdute video in this thread. Both of them have a fair deal of the De Meglio design elements, in particular the large onlaid scratchplate, the tulipwood binding and the string downholder (although the double top one has hooks rather than the de Meglio bar). However, the bracing and the shape of the bowl are quite different from De Meglio, and there are no side holes. Consequently, the tone is also quite different between either of the Ceccherinis and a De Meglio, as well as between the two Ceccherinis, no doubt attributable to the presence of the double top. Effectively, the single top Ceccherini is a halfway stage between the two designs.

I've just looked through some old picture threads to illustrate these points:

- This thread from 2004 shows my two Ceccherinis, as well as photos from Dave's very first ever De Meglio restoration, and has some discussion of repair and design features. Please ignore the posts by "Finklestein" in that thread: he turned out to be a spoof by some of my work colleagues winding me up. Also, this was posted during the time when I tried to convince myself that my Carlo Rinaldi was actually a relabelled genuine De Meglio, so the references to "my De Meglio" in that thread are to the Rinaldi, which explains why I considered it to be an inferior instrument.

- This thread has side-by-side pictures of my single-top Ceccherini and my Rinaldi. As I said, the Rinaldi is much cruder than a genuine De Meglio, but as it copies the De Meglio design very closely, this may also serve as a guide to similarities and differences between Ceccherini and De Meglio. One intriguing difference is that the Ceccherini has a longer scale length even though the length overall and the neck length are the same, meaning that the cant of the Ceccherini is a centimetre or so closer to the tailpiece than on the Rinaldi/De Meglio as can be seen in this photo:



Martin

[dave17120]

Well there is good news and bad news!!

First the good, my contact in Italy says the following...
"The De Meglio system was patented in 1889. Giovanni De Meglio was the son of Carlo De Meglio who was one of the main Neapolitan piano makers. Giovanni himself worked as a piano maker. His son Vincenzo patented a new mandolin in 1895."
So a patent DOES exist for the Sistema de Meglio!

And now the bad news........
"The patents are in the archives in Rome but they do not have a web-site. I will go there in a few weeks to make pictures of this and of many other patents (such as the one of Calace's mandolyre)."

I think the only thing to say at this point is......... watch this space....

And a couple of things with reference to some of the items above....
"The inside of the soundboard that Dave posted is pretty standard for a bowlback..."
Sorry to have to disagree with such an august personnage, but....... these are more typical for a bowlback soundboard.... de Meglio has a lot more well finished bracing beneath, and the method of joining the top to the bowl is very particular. Explained below.... Dave

[dave17120]

A small contribution to 'what is the system de Meglio'. Besides the extra bracing beneath the top, the top-side join in de Meglios system is different from the normal run of mandolins, and I wouldn't be surprised to see this somewhere in the patent........

Below is a diagram to explain the differences. The first is inherently weak (but cheap and fast to do..!!) as there is only a glue line in one plane, but it glues the top where it is at its most fragile, just below the purfling and edging. The second is a little better as it allows for the edge of the top to retain a little more thickness. De Meglios method has two definite glue lines, in 2 planes. Its not very often I've seen a de Meglio with the top hanging off.... bits of the edging pushed out by struts that have shrunk less longitudinally than the top has laterally, but usually the top is still firmly fixed. Dave

[brunello97]

I have in my possession a short autobiography of Luciano Grimaldi, (1891-1960) a luthier based in Catania....Apparently Grimaldi managed to stay in business until WWII, but during the war the factory was obliterated, and while they took refuge in the countryside, their house was stripped of everything valuable. Sadly, I'm sure others must have suffered similarly.

I had read somewhere that Catania (as well as most port cities in Sicily) were heavily bombed and that the Puglisi factory was also destroyed at this time. I found this website with some interesting (and frightening) aerial photos:

http://www.reddog1944.com/Missions_T...bat_Action.htm

Dave, that is interesting news viz the de Meglio patent. I can't wait to see what your friend turns up. More curiosities at each turn. A piano-making Knight? Maybe he was knighted for his piano-making abilities. Apparently in the kingdom there were "the Chivalrous Order of Agricultural, Industrial and Commercial Merit" according to this site of (not-unimpeachable credentials)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ngdom_of_Italy

The Loyal Order of the Bowl, seemingly has some precedent.

Might Cav. Giovanni have been an earlier ancestor who 'founded the house' in 1800 and whose good name was applied by the later instrument making descendants? If not him, then what was the relationship between Cav. Giovanni and Carlo, father of Giovanni, grandfather of Vincenzo? The evolution of the labels helps fuel my curiosity. Which Giovanni (senza Cavaliere) does the label I posted refer to? Given all the accomplishments the de Meglios liked to include on their labels, forgetting to include that you were a Knight seems curious. One would expect the patent of 1889 to be in Giovanni's name as the one from 1895 to be in the son's. That should prove interesting.

Dave, I am a bit confused. Are any of the top bracing examples you show from a de Meglio?

Mick

[Martin Jonas]

Dave, I am a bit confused. Are any of the top bracing examples you show from a de Meglio?

I think the one on the left in post #53 is from a de Meglio, the others are not.

Martin

[brunello97]

I think the one on the left in post #53 is from a de Meglio, the others are not.

Martin

Sorry to have been so lazy, Martin. I clicked on the images Dave posted and he had labeled the files. The one on the upper left (with the distinctly carved bracing) is apparently from a de Mureda.

Mick

[MandolinoNapoletano]

A small contribution to 'what is the system de Meglio'. Besides the extra bracing beneath the top, the top-side join in de Meglios system is different from the normal run of mandolins, and I wouldn't be surprised to see this somewhere in the patent........

Below is a diagram to explain the differences. The first is inherently weak (but cheap and fast to do..!!) as there is only a glue line in one plane, but it glues the top where it is at its most fragile, just below the purfling and edging. The second is a little better as it allows for the edge of the top to retain a little more thickness. De Meglios method has two definite glue lines, in 2 planes. Its not very often I've seen a de Meglio with the top hanging off.... bits of the edging pushed out by struts that have shrunk less longitudinally than the top has laterally, but usually the top is still firmly fixed. Dave

One word INCREDIBLE. de Meglio was so eager to crearte quality mandolins. No wonder he wanted to denounce the copy mandolins on his labels. The way he glued the edges one side and then on going into that slant to secure pressure resistance is remarkable. I never realized the gem I had. It's just made me appreciate my instrument just that much more. Thank you so much for the diagram. You are an amazing luthier Dave.

[Jim Garber]

This is an excellent, ground-breaking thread!! I just voted it 5 stars. There is wonderful information we are uncovering. Thank you, MandolinoNapoletano (James?) for initiating it.

[brunello97]

Great diagrams, Dave! You and Pablo H have a nice way of explaining things through simple clear drawings. (If I could get my students to be so clear.) The de Meglio edge joints are as much an area of curiosity as the rest of the company seems to be. I always assumed the rounded over edge was one of both style and protection from edge damage-the way one might with furniture. The grain direction runs counter to that in typical binding which makes for a striking appearance. Do you have any photos of de-assembled de Meglios from your shop? From photos it seems they did use edge details similar to all three of your diagrams. Here are some other photos of de Meglio edge joints, the first two being the most curious. The last (a poor quality image) appears to represent your third diagram in areas where the edging has broken away.

I just hope this thread doesn't do for de Meglio prices what Eugene's did for Martin bowlbacks a couple years ago :-)

Mick

[MandolinoNapoletano]

Great diagrams, Dave! You and Pablo H have a nice way of explaining things through simple clear drawings. (If I could get my students to be so clear.) The de Meglio edge joints are as much an area of curiosity as the rest of the company seems to be. I always assumed the rounded over edge was one of both style and protection from edge damage-the way one might with furniture. The grain direction runs counter to that in typical binding which makes for a striking appearance. Do you have any photos of de-assembled de Meglios from your shop? From photos it seems they did use edge details similar to all three of your diagrams. Here are some other photos of de Meglio edge joints, the first two being the most curious. The last (a poor quality image) appears to represent your third diagram in areas where the edging has broken away.

I just hope this thread doesn't do for de Meglio prices what Eugene's did for Martin bowlbacks a couple years ago :-)

Mick

You know Mick I always wondered why the de Meglios would always sell for nothing, like 200 or 300 dollars. The quality, volume, and echo holds a place of it's own with even the big names like Calace and Vinaccia. Calaces and Vinaccias sound beautiful, but these de Meglios seem to have their own unique voices for Neapolitan folk in particular.