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Thread: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

  1. #1

    Default De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    The label on ALL De Meglio labels has the Coat of Arms of the House of Savoy(Royal Family of Italy) and says(translated) "Suppliers of the Royal Family" and on other De Meglio labels a few years later "Commended by the King and Queen of Italy". I find that very interesting given it is the only mandolin factoring business to carry the Coat of Arms and claim this. Generally thinking you would think that possibly it was required by carry this emblem however no other mandolins from Naples carry it. Surely it couldn't be just gloating, because penalties to say a factory is supported by the royal family and it isn't would carry a harsh penalty. I'm wondering what the Royal Family had to do with this business. Possibly it supplied instruments or luthier services for the musicians of the Royal Family? Any thoughts on this guys?

  2. #2

    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    I would take it as a "stamp of approval", rather than anything more concrete than that. That is, at least, the customary significance of royal endorsement in other products. But perhaps Italy's monarchs —in excellent taste, I would hasten to add!— did in fact engage the de Meglio company more substantively, vis-a-vis the instrumentarium of the royal household.

    After all, Restoration-era British monarchs had in their service some lowly, no-name "keeper of vialls, fluetes, bases, and vari'd other sortes of musikall instruments" to make sure everything sounded OK. His name was... Henry Purcell! The office of luthier and instrument repairman was in fact a highly respected one, and surely the de Meglio company would have delivered prime service to the House of Savoy.

    I don't know the facts involved in this particular case, though...

    Cheers,

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  3. #3
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    I probably have a better photo of a label at home (or could take one of mine) but here is one from a blog.

    It is interesting that I don't think I have ever seen a DeMeglio mandolin that was sold in Italy. All the ones i have seen had bee imported to the UK.

    Also, I don't see on this 1903 label that that is the coat of arms of the royal family in Italy. I thought is was DeMeglio's coat of arms. Of course, I am not familiar what that should look like anyway, so I could stand corrected.

    I also see the "Commended by the royal family" but not the "Suppliers to".
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  4. #4

    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    It may be a version of

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Savoy

    as there are many, of varying graphic accuracy, and affixed to various items.

    But I am admittedly weak on matters royal, as I come from staunch adherents of the (Greek) First Republic, Velizelos, and all that. But all that was well before derivatives... ;-)

    Cheers,

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  5. #5

    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    1. My best friend is a Royal Honor Guard of Italy. They specialize in all the ceremonial events for the King and the Royal Family of Italy. Also he certified that it is the coat of arms of the Savoy family. He looked at the etichet and recognized immediately. There's no doubt that it is that. It's even written on it "REAL CASA" . Go to this site and see where it leads you and look immediately at the logo on the site. It's the SAME EXACT LOGO on the etichett of De Meglio Mandolins. LINK: http://www.crocerealedisavoia.it/

    2. On that particular label "encomiato dalle LL. MM ....." yes the phrase goes to say that it is "Approved by the King and Queen of Italy". However I will refer you to MY mandolin label. It says clearly at the top "FORNITORI (ROYAL SAVOY FAMILY LOGO) DELLA REAL CASA." This translates clearly to "SUPPLIERS OF THE ROYAL HOUSE". Even in modern day Italy if you want to say internet provider you say "FORNITORE DI SERVIZI...". So there is no doubt that this is what it means. Now if you look at the site look long and hard at that logo and compare it to that in the De Meglio... It's the same. Being an Italian you wouldn't say "Real Casa" normally. It's a thing of the royal family.


    The REAL question is what did De Meglio have to do with the Royal Family. I have emailed some prominent luthiers in Italy to see if they can figure this out.
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  6. #6
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    Here is a DeMeglio label including 'fornitori della real casa'.....Who they were supplying at the palace is anyone's guess. Wasn't Margherita of Savoy, of pizza fame, also reputed to be a mandolin enthusiast?

    This first label attached has a warning against faux Meglios which at least hints at a wider market than just the UK--or it could simply be more marketing eyewash to go along with all the flourish on the signatures. The second image is of a DeMeglio label from it seems before the sons were on on board. It appears to lack the royal seal but I can't see the stamp well enough to read what it says. I do enjoy the DeMeglio labels, they are probably my favorites right after the the Puglisi.

    Mick
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  7. #7

    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    [QUOTE=MandolinoNapoletano;796077]My best friend is a Royal Honor Guard of Italy.[QUOTE]

    Well... then he may be your best source and resource in this matter. Royal houses are known for keeping detailed inventories, records of purchase, payrolls, etc. That is, for example, how we know so much about musicians who served royal/noble households, since time immemorial.

    And this goes not only music, of course. The main reason, for example, that we have any record of Philodemus (of Gadara) was that he was "house philosopher" to Piso, Calpurnia's father, and thus Julius Caesar's father-in-law. It is from the charred scrolls of Herculanum, scorched along with Pompeii, that we have record of the library, what books were bought for it, what texts copied (in manuscript, of course), who paid whom and for what, etc. Ditto on all those Florentine, Mantuan, Ferrarese, etc. count-books, which tell us so very much about the contractual agreements that the great artists of the Renaissance entered into with their noble patrons.

    So my suggestion would be to look into archival material of that particular court— the "buy-side" of the deal, so to speak.

    Cheers,

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  8. #8
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    Oh, I believe you and am fascinated by all this. It looks like the label changed after, say 1900 without the suppliers part. Maybe they lost the contract?

    BTW I am uploading the coat of arms here for posterity.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    A quick search turns up such advertising claims as this: "Crosse and Blackwell, Purveyors in Ordinary to Her Majesty, respectfully invite attention to their PICKLES, Sauces, Tart Fruits, and other table delicacies..." As Mick suggests, someone in the family (a brother-in-law?) may have traded this kind of prestige for a nice mando now and then.

    Funny that the warning against imitations is in French. Also, is the actual stamp affixed to the label a "tax paid" stamp? Like the old US liquor bottles had?

    BC

  10. #10

    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    Here is a DeMeglio label including 'fornitori della real casa'.....Who they were supplying at the palace is anyone's guess. Wasn't Margherita of Savoy, of pizza fame, also reputed to be a mandolin enthusiast?

    This first label attached has a warning against faux Meglios which at least hints at a wider market than just the UK--or it could simply be more marketing eyewash to go along with all the flourish on the signatures. The second image is of a DeMeglio label from it seems before the sons were on on board. It appears to lack the royal seal but I can't see the stamp well enough to read what it says. I do enjoy the DeMeglio labels, they are probably my favorites right after the the Puglisi.

    Mick
    Margherita of Savoy was a mandolinist. She was also the right age to be a potential player of a De Meglio mandolin. If any logical inference would be made given this information, it would be that Margherita of Savoy was a De Meglio player and therefore endorsed this product. It's a common fact since the Renaissance that families of wealth and power used to endorse different artists, inventors, and musicians. It's quite possible Margherita fancied a De Meglio and used it as her personal instrument. It's also quite possible De Meglio could have been her particular luthier of choice, given the longevity of the endorsement of De Meglio labels.

    A little food for thought : In June 1889 the NEAPOLITAN Raffaele Esposito made the modern "pizza" and named it the "Pizza Margherita" in honor of Margherita of Savoy. This is right about the time period De Meglio mandolins start rapidly appearing on the scene. Who is to say that another NEAPOLITAN Giovanni De Meglio couldn't have had the honor to make a mandolin for Margherita and upon becoming the luthier of choice, start to advertise royal endorsement. If any logical guess could be made, I think this would be it.

  11. #11

    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    There are, interestingly, Neapolitan mandolins from that time made by a luthier named Raffaele Esposito. A relative or the same one? I do not know.

  12. #12
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    The Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia http://museo.santacecilia.it has a collection of Queen Margarita's instruments and other related musical items which include a very fancy mandolin made by Rosario Porto e Figli in Catania. It is inventory No7 and the link to it is here. Whether or not it is her favourite mandolin I have no idea, a search on the site for de Meglio gets no hits. The only modern (a century ago) mandolin in the instruments the Queen donated to the Musem is the Porto

    cheers

    graham

  13. #13

    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy


    This is me just playing a sloppy version of Speranze Perdute on my De Meglio. There are not many videos of them out there on the web so I thought I would make a quick video playing it with no accompaniment, so people could hear the true tune of the instrument. I'm using a medium Dunlop pick with 9 month old Calace strings.

  14. #14
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    Here is a label from a Raffaele Esposito mandolin touting his connection to the Vinaccias. The image looks neither like a pizza nor the Savoy crest, unfortunately. Perhaps some type of lyre or harp. I have labels from the Fratelli Esposito from earlier '90s, and closer in time to the pizza incident, but nothing from RE that old. Were all of the Espositos--Gennaro, Pasquale and Raffaele--brothers?

    Mick
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham McDonald View Post
    The Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia http://museo.santacecilia.it has a collection of Queen Margarita's instruments and other related musical items which include a very fancy mandolin made by Rosario Porto e Figli in Catania. It is inventory No7 and the link to it is here. Whether or not it is her favourite mandolin I have no idea, a search on the site for de Meglio gets no hits. The only modern (a century ago) mandolin in the instruments the Queen donated to the Musem is the Porto
    Thanks for that link, Graham. The Savoy collectioin is interesting. There are some strange guitars there as well as mandoliras by Calace and Dabiero, a few Monzino instruments, a rather nice looking Pasquale Vinaccia from 1869, a David Tecchler mandolino and an unusual Embergher instrument called a chitarra-mandola bassa (looks like it has 6 strings but 8 tuners and a guitar bridge -- maybe converted from a mandocello?). Here is Porto and the Vinaccia. My guess is that Porto made this over-the-top ornamented mandolin and presented it to the queen. it is much too much glitz for me.
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    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    Wow. The pickguard on the Porto is amazing. A websearch for images of her highness yielded this one below. It is of low quality, and nothing to give a positive ID to the woman in white in the front row. Are there other images out there of her with mandolin(ists)? With pizza?

    Mick
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    Mick:
    I think she might be sitting on that Porto. [Sorry: I have to... i think she had one mandolin built for outside use called a Porto-san]

    Please forgive me. Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.
    Jim

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  18. #18
    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    Thanks for the video, MandolinoNapoletano. That's really nice fluent playing. Wish I could get such a smooth tremolo!

    BC

  19. #19

    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Clausen View Post
    Thanks for the video, MandolinoNapoletano. That's really nice fluent playing. Wish I could get such a smooth tremolo!

    BC
    Hey thanks so much for the compliment. It means a lot.

  20. #20

    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham McDonald View Post
    The Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia http://museo.santacecilia.it has a collection of Queen Margarita's instruments and other related musical items which include a very fancy mandolin made by Rosario Porto e Figli in Catania. It is inventory No7 and the link to it is here. Whether or not it is her favourite mandolin I have no idea, a search on the site for de Meglio gets no hits. The only modern (a century ago) mandolin in the instruments the Queen donated to the Musem is the Porto

    cheers

    graham
    Thanks for the information. Great link. Getting back to the main topic, and De Meglio's connection with The Royal Family. It's anyones guess at this stage of the game. My friend who is in the honor guard said Emanuele Filiberto (The Now Prince of Italy) took all of these Honor Guards to a special conservatory room when they were doing a vacation for their duty at the Pantheon, where he reported there were many MANY different instruments in this room. He said there were mandolins, *bigger* mandolins which obviously means mandolas, guitars, violins, and pianos of the Royal Family. He said when he goes back to Rome to do his duty, he will be looking for this mark on one of the many mandolins. I think then we might be able to get down to the bottom of this.

  21. #21
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    Sounds like this could be un hareng rouge or else the plot of a new Dan Brown novel: young, beautiful mandolinista gets caught up with Propaganda Due, the King of Jerusalem, the Knights Templar (or course) for good measure. Lots of great location shots in Napoli, Malta, Catania as Tom Hanks goes from pizzeria to liuteria chasing clues. The soundtrack alone would be worth the movie. But all this speculation was worth it to remind me how much I like DeMeglio mandolins (and our new forno al legno--the pies are extraordinary.) When the current herd is sufficiently thinned it will be time to be finding myself one. There is some motivation there.

    Mick
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  22. #22
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    No idea about the De Meglio connection. Queen Margherita was certainly a mandolinist, and while she may have played a De Meglio at some stage, the only mandolin I know she played is a very fancy 1880s Vinaccia on display in the Victoria & Albert Museum in London -- I've seen it and it's way over the top (nicely made, though, and with the Savoy crest in the inlay). Paul Sparks mentions the Queen seven times in his book "The Classical Mandolin", but only two of these citations mention the mandolin she was playing: one from 1865 (a Pasquale Vinaccia) and one from 1898 (again a Vinaccia "valued at 300 Pounds", possibly the one in the V&A). Then there is this Vinaccia label from 1902, posted a few years ago by Jim Garber, showing the Savoy crest and the inscription "Provveditori di S.M. LA REGINA MARGHERITA". All in all, it seems fairly clear that the Queen herself, at least, was a one-shop Vinaccia afficionado. If De Meglio managed to get a royal endorsement it would appear not to have been from the Queen.

    Martin

    PS: I love your recording of Speranze Perdute! Apart from the lovely tone of the De Meglio, you have a great groove. I've recently recorded that tune myself for Youtube, but my playing is way wooden compared to yours!

  23. #23

    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Jonas View Post
    No idea about the De Meglio connection. Queen Margherita was certainly a mandolinist, and while she may have played a De Meglio at some stage, the only mandolin I know she played is a very fancy 1880s Vinaccia on display in the Victoria & Albert Museum in London -- I've seen it and it's way over the top (nicely made, though, and with the Savoy crest in the inlay). Paul Sparks mentions the Queen seven times in his book "The Classical Mandolin", but only two of these citations mention the mandolin she was playing: one from 1865 (a Pasquale Vinaccia) and one from 1898 (again a Vinaccia "valued at 300 Pounds", possibly the one in the V&A). Then there is this Vinaccia label from 1902, posted a few years ago by Jim Garber, showing the Savoy crest and the inscription "Provveditori di S.M. LA REGINA MARGHERITA". All in all, it seems fairly clear that the Queen herself, at least, was a one-shop Vinaccia afficionado. If De Meglio managed to get a royal endorsement it would appear not to have been from the Queen.

    Martin

    PS: I love your recording of Speranze Perdute! Apart from the lovely tone of the De Meglio, you have a great groove. I've recently recorded that tune myself for Youtube, but my playing is way wooden compared to yours!

    Thank you so much for your kind words. I would like to hear your recording on youtube, if you could post a link. Thank you once again.

  24. #24
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    Quote Originally Posted by MandolinoNapoletano View Post
    Thank you so much for your kind words. I would like to hear your recording on youtube, if you could post a link. Thank you once again.
    I've recorded it twice, once quite slowly (the speed we tend to play it at with our ensemble) on my Embergher (link) and again a bit faster on my Mid-Missouri (link). There are also a fair number of other ballo liscio tunes in my channel (link), played on either my Embergher or my Ceccherini. But, as I said, I am pretty wooden compared to you.

    Martin

  25. #25

    Default Re: De Meglio Company and the House of Savoy

    For yet another one of my habitual trivia, the term provveditore (spelled with a single "v" in Venetian) has had fairly broad connotations across the centuries:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provveditore

    We had such dogal "purveyors" on our islands since the Middle Ages.

    A more-recent-day purveyor is, well... any number of things, specific or non-specific. It would be nice to substantiate, not just by logical inference, but by factual data, some de Meglio connection with the House of Savoy. The likelihood that something may be so does not of course constitute proof that it is so. Due diligence, and all that...

    The lovely instruments of this shop certainly merit distinction! Sweet, even-sounding, and SO quintessentially Neapolitan!

    Cheers,

    Victor
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