Two years and highly discouraged

[irokcj5]

I feel like giving up, but I love the mandolin so much. I'm really discouraged because I don't seem to get any better. I make the same mistakes over and over, and I can probably show you everything I know in 30 minutes. I mostly play a few fiddle tunes, which I hate to play, but feel that it should help my ear and fingers and can play a some intro's and fill ins that I've learned by slowing down the song and learning it note by note.

I play my scales, and am starting appegios, and pentatonic scales. I still can't do fill ins that make any since without copying what someone else has masterfully done. I also can't stop MESSING UP!!!.... I'll play someonething right most of the time, but never really master a song. It's very agrivating, especially when I get around others and can't get through a song without botching the whole thing. Oh, and I can't play anything fast....errggggg...

I know you never stop learning, but I feel like I'm not making any progress at all. How long should it take to learn this glorious instrument.

irokcj5

[Jim]

I think we all feel that way to some degree. I feel like I'm not progressing every few months to years. It's very frustrating! I usually try & find a new instructional book or cd/dvd to get me over the plateau but it takes awhile sometimes. I will also focus on one of my other instruments ( Guitar or Flute) for a while and find that the enthusiasm for mandolin returns after a break. Works the same with the other instruments too. As for how long it takes to learn this instrument. I'm pretty sure it takes your whole life.

[JEStanek]

Are you working with an instructor? You might also get more satisfaction out of playing the kind of tunes you enjoy. If you don't particularly like fiddle tunes try and play something you do like as a motivator. A good instructor can help you set goals, and focus your efforts on those things you want to improve.

Jamie

PS. I have felt that way as well.

[Willie Poole]

Hey fellows, don`t give up on the mandolin, just play what you can and one day everything will fall in place and you will wonder why you couldn`t do it before...We are all learning something almost every day, I have been playing for over 50 years and I am still learning things..No one ever gets to the point where he can`t learn any more....Keep at it and good luck.....Willie

[F-2 Dave]

I've been playing for 30+ years and still aren't where I'd like to be. Try to get into a jam or some situation where you can play what you know at your level while adding in some new challenging stuff. Alot of people start with old fiddle tunes, I did and they're great. Just stay after it, it'll come along.

[pager]

If you asked this cajun girl for advice, I would tell you to stop playing the fiddle tunes. You obviously hate them. By playing those tunes and playing scales, you are turning your practice session into drugery and 'work'. Scales are important, but don't let them turn practice into a thing you hate to do. Sometimes learning new material feels a little like work, but the overall experience should be FUN. Jamie has an excellent point of getting an instructor. Also, start playing with others. That will really help. Don't worry about breaks and fills at first - just settle in and play back up chords for a bit. Don't be concerned about mistakes or botching it. I totally botched a 'break' on stage at a festival today in front of a gigantic ocean of people. The stage felt like it was 120 degrees, and instead of cooking on a solo I have played a thousand times, I went out on a limb and fell off. So it happens.
Playing things you hate by 'rote' is misery. It's time to saddle up, change trails, and have fun cowboy.

jillian

[MandoNicity]

+1 for what Jamie said. Play what YOU like, not what is "supposed" to be right. No reason to ever play a single fiddle tune if you get no joy from them. The wonderful thing about the mandolin is that it is adaptable to virtually every style of music known to man. My advice is to pick a song that you really like and get the music/notation/tab for it and work on it SLOWLY until you can play it all the way through and then gradually increase the speed a little at a time. Use a metronome! You can use this if you don't own one, http://www.metronomeonline.com/ . All musicians great and small go through these kinds of periods time to time. Hope you find your way back to mando joy.

JR

[irokcj5]

Cajun Girl?????? You're in Boulder, are you from south louisiana???? That's where I'm at.

Thanks for answering. Let me put it this way with fiddle tunes...what I want to be able to play is gospel bluegrass, the lead in's, fills, and breaks. I'd like to be able to figure out how to put the scales and stuff into practice but I can't seem to do anything that sounds right and sure can't play anything fast or beyond a beginner level. As for being drugery, that's not the way I feel, I can't seem to put the mandolin down. I just feel bad for her, being in the hands of bad musician....

[Starrshine]

If you asked this cajun girl for advice, I would tell you to stop playing the fiddle tunes. You obviously hate them. By playing those tunes and playing scales, you are turning your practice session into drugery and 'work'. Sometimes learning new material feels a little like work, but the overall experience should be FUN. Jamie has an excellent point of getting an instructor. Also, start playing with others. That will really help. Don't worry about breaks and fills - just settle in and play back up chords for a bit. Don't worry about mistakes or botching it. I totally botched a 'break' on stage at a festival today in front of a gigantic ocean of people. So it happens.
Playing things you hate by 'rote' is misery. It's time to saddle up, change trails, and have fun cowboy.

jillian

Everything Jillian said!!!! Jams are what keeps my interest up. I went to a traditional festival today; just to jam. All they played were fiddle tunes, pretty regimented to me. One thing I like to do is record stuff with my guitar on my Zoom and play over the top of it with the mandolin it has really helped me.
Bob

[Daniel Nestlerode]

irokcj5,
As I teacher, the first thing I would tell you is to relax. Don't clench when you play. It's more important to feel the music than it is to get it "right."

Pick a song or a fiddle tune you want to know how to play. Then go after it exclusively until you get it down to your satisfaction. Then move on to another tune or song, but brush up on the first one too occasionally. The more tunes you get under your belt the faster the new ones will come to you. Music, like language, is cumulative.

Daniel

[jim_n_virginia]

hey man don't get discouraged. Everybody learns at a different pace. Some faster some slower and I doubt you have a worse memory than me! LOL! It takes me forever to learn something and I learn by repetition and I gotta play something 70 gazillion times in a row (or when someone throws something at me to stop) to learn it.

You need to find a picking buddy/s who plays at the same level as you. Nothing like a good pickin buddy who grows musically with you and you learn each others tunes and licks.

Believe it or not I met most of my picking buddies (people who I regularly hook up with and go to jams and each others house) right here on the Cafe and also on Craigslist. I put an ad on C.L years ago looking for people who play bluegrass and I met several people and also I hooked up with a non profit Outreach group that I play music once a month (paid) for the last 5 years.

Check around you'd be surprised at who might be right around you and you don't even know it.
Good luck!

[irokcj5]

Thanks, all for the encouragement. I just downloaded another instructional dvd, Ronnie McCurry. Seems a bit difficult for me (like Rawhide, yeah right!!!), but I'm going to give it a shot. At least it came with the tabs too.

thanks again.
IROKCJ5

[i-vibe]

lot's of good stuff from the folks above. one thing that might be helpful is setting some small and realistic shortime goals. these are great confidence bulders and can get you feeling good about your progress and prct sessions.

for example you might pick a block of time and say ...this week my goal is to learn the A section of this song. you can further narrow it per actual prct sessions....in this prct session i want to get down _______. could be a new phase, a new scale, a chord progression, etc.

hang in there....we all go thru those times when we're not progressing the way we want.

[jim_n_virginia]

Seems a bit difficult for me (like Rawhide, yeah right!!!), but I'm going to give it a shot. At least it came with the tabs too.

thanks again.
IROKCJ5

Rawhide is a tough tune to learn on your own for me anyway's, learn it right that is and play it with power. I had been playing for 7 or 8 years and I still couldn't quite get it ( I was close but still off) on my own even with tab, CD instruction and DVD too. Finally I had to pay a really good teacher to teach it to me note for note to learn it.

But give it a shot who knows you might pick it up quick but if you can't don't get discouraged it isn't the easiet tune to learn.

I have the same McCoury DVD you got I tried learning Baltimore Johnny and got hung up on that one too. Will get around to learning it ONE of these days! LOL!

[Ivan Kelsall]

Quote - " I make the same mistakes over and over...." I used to do that,now i make all new ones everday !. Whatever you do,don't give up.You've only been playing for 2 years,that's NOT a long time at all. If after 2 years you feel confident enough to go for "Rawhide",you can't be doing too badly,but personally i'd go for some of Bill Monroe's 'easier' tunes such as "Goldrush" or "Southern Flavour" before you start hammering away at "Rawhide". Take tunes in easy bites & learn each one well before going on to another.
Lots of good advice in the above posts as well. I'm only in my 5th year on Mandolin,but i've made a lot of progress,mainly by playing a piece a 100 times if necessary, to get it right.Once i've done that,i play it over & over so i could do it in my sleep. Only then will i try to improvise,when i know the tune almost inside out. It's slow work,but it blows me away when i get a new tune nailed,
Ivan

[roscoestring]

I play along with the radio, or television. I'll put on records or write a new tune. This keeps me from getting bored with doing the same thing over and over again. Sometimes I'll play acoustic and then again electric with the effects and all. I have a new mandolin due to arrive on Tuesday. That should keep me excited about playing again too. Sometimes I'm encouraged by playing guitar or bass and then wonder if I can play a mandotune to match that. The thing with me it to just keep doing things differently everyday. I'm not the traditional mandolin player though. I get bored with bluegrass. Please don't throw things at me. But it's true. I love to hear bluegrass and especially gospelgrass, but I can't take very much in one sitting. You owe no one anything when playing. Do the things that make you happy. I've been playing mando for about 10 years now and I'm nearly up to noob status.

[HddnKat]

Sometimes I think I'm not making any progress at all, but then I go back and play one of the first tunes I ever learned, and I'm amazed at how much easier it flows. I've been playing for 6 years now, and I routinely flub when I take a break, but I"m getting better at it. I progress a lot faster when I"m playing with people better than me, because I"m a competitive cuss.

[Dave Cowles]

I've had to accept a few realities in my mandolin journey. I'm 67 years old and played guitar for almost 50 years before I really got aggressive in learning mandolin. I'm a lefty who plays righty, and my left hand is my rhythm hand so I don't have the same speed and dexterity in my picking hand that a true righty does. Speed and tremolo are major challenges for me, so I play a lot of the slower sweet stuff and mostly just chop on the fast tunes. It's still one of the greatest musical adventures ever for me.

Having said all that, I'll add that there are epiphanies, major "Aha!" moments that happen when double-stops and movable shapes all of a sudden come together, when scales I've been practicing spontaneously translate into a bit of fill, an intro, or even a lead. Those are the moments that make it all the more worthwhile.
Dave

[Dimonback]

I've been playing guitar for 45 years and like many non-pro players, I find my abilities run in cycles, even if I am playing regularly. Long ago I came to the conclusion that I'm not going to be a rock star, or a folk star, or a country music star. Another lefthander playing rightly, I accept that there are some things I can't be taught- two finger picking is my upper end limit, and arpeggio flat picking is something akin to time travel for me. What I CAN do, on occasion, is not disgust myself, and some people will say that I play well.
The fact is I gave up the idea of playing for crowds of people (yes, I have done the bar gigs, and the rare public venue), and started playing only for myself and the sanity check of playing music my way, for my ears. I hear my mistakes, and think to myself that I can do that better next time, but that run will do for now (since I can't UNhear it, anyway).
There are times I can make it scream like Neil Schon, or sigh like Santana, and I'm okay that it only happens about 2% of my playing time. There's absolutely no structure and no goals in my playing.

There's my confession.

To really get better, I'd have to practice a lot more than I have time for. To keep progressing I'd have to find people to play with, and new music to work into. Learning to read music would probably be a good thing as well, but playing by ear has been working for so long I'm reluctant to make the investment.

Now I'm venturing back into mandolin after a 20 year hiatus with the same singular lack of commitment- I'm interested, and it sounds like fun, and I'll play well enough to listen to myself. I'll enjoy it as long and as often as I can stand and I'll not push myself so hard it loses the entertainment value. It's not something I'll master, but maybe on occasion it will make me smile.

[allenhopkins]

Every now and then I remind myself: they call it playing music, not working music. It's supposed to be fun, even when it's frustrating. I've been playing nearly 50 years, now am sort of a "semi-pro" musician with 150-175 gigs annually, and I still flub and goof up and hit the wrong chord or the glitched-up run. Now I tell myself, "So what?" If I can relax and enjoy myself, and the audience or my fellow jammers don't seem to mind, it's just another small step on the road to marginal competence.

[Patrick Sylvest]

I made a new years resolution to 'enjoy playing music'. It seems obvious, but it's easy to make work out of it. Since January, I really have lightened up and looked for bright spots whether it be in my playing or progress or playing out with others....any musical endeavor should bring joy. I've been at it for 30 years, and have only logged 4 on mandolin.

[Steelee]

Hey Bud,

If you are seeking perfection on the mandolin, good luck. If you are seeking perfection on anything else in life, good luck also. Sometimes I worry if my progress in playing is the same as others with similar experience - good luck to me with that.

I believe if you are happy with what you are doing, you will automatically get better - with mandolin playing or anything else.

[Rroyd]

Have you taken any lessons, or spent a little time with somone who evaluated your playing? A minor, easily correctable problem or two can hinder your progress, or even be that "brick wall" that can't get beyond. If you have any technique problems, hours of practice are not going to provide the kind of progress you are hoping for. Find someone who knows how to evaluate and instruct. There are a lot of "teachers" advertising instruction, but many are severely deficient in their teaching abilities, so get some recommendations if you choose to go that route. However, oftentimes a few suggestions can
help provide a breakthrough, so just an evaluation might get you going. Something as simple as how you are holding the instrument can affect your performance, like the baseball bat neck grip, so it might be well worth it to get a little input.

[Mandobart]

This is how I learned guitar (in the age before computers, DVD's or even cable TV) - I got some song books from the local music store from my favorite artists (Neil Young, Bob Dylan, etc.) the kind that have the music plus chords or even chord charts above the lyrics. Since I already knew how the songs were supposed to sound, it was pretty easy to get the basic song down playing the chords. I learned to add hammer-ons & pull-offs to add fill. Later I could pick out the melody using the notes in the chord pattern (without changing anything on the left hand). Then as I learned more about scales, I added more fill-in stuff. I took this same technique when I started mandolin just two years ago. If you don't like fiddle tunes, play something you do like. Get some chord charts; available at music stores or on-line. You can get most any song lyrics and chord with a google search. You can get through ANY song just playing the chords. On a fretted stringed instrument, I believe a person needs to lean the chords, in various positions, and how to execute crisp chord changes first before diving too deep into the arpeggios and leads.

[Jim Rowland]

I didn't start trying to play a mandolin 'til I was 69 years old,even though I'd been building them on and off for twenty years or so. I'm now 78 and sometimes feel like an alligator which is said to have evolved to its present form some 50 million years ago and hasn't evolved 5 seconds since. I can't play at all in front of others but enjoy playing to myself. Panic. Playing with a metronome has helped me some in the last couple of years,but even the click click freaks me out a little. I'll keep on until the old natural ticker gives out.
Jim