1898 #475 on eBay

[Greg Allen]

Kind of scant on pix and description,so I sent an email asking for more of both(specific photos of head stock,label and fretboard). That was yesterday am. No reply so far. Anybody think this is legit. Looks a little sketchy to me.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[barney 59]

Probably not 1898. That is the patent date but it is probably a 1903 or 1906 or something along those lines. Seller should respond or give it a miss.

[F-2 Dave]

I'd sure want more info before I made an offer. Tailpiece cover is wrong for the period. Zero feedback for the seller. $5000 is really optimistic.

[barney 59]

I didn't even look at the price --seller is crazy --give it a miss

[Jim Garber]

Love the south Jersey pickguard, dislike intensely the price. No way in Helsinki is that worth that.

[brunello97]

"South Jersey pickguard"? What is that?

Mick

[Jim Garber]

"South Jersey pickguard"? What is that?

[fatt-dad]

I love geology!

f-d

[journeybear]

As has been noted repeatedly, 1898 is a patent date; factory production did not begin until a few years afterward. If I may:

The first serial numbers started in 1902 and ran until 1947. The serial numbers started with 100 and went to 99999. All numbers are approximate. In most cases, only the high end instruments were assigned identification numbers.

Year Made First serial number of that year Last serial number of that year
1903 ...... 100 ..................................... 1150

so this is a 1903. Why the seller is not providing more photos of what is supposedly a fine instrument is beyond my comprehension, and justifiable cause for apprehension.

[mrmando]

But IIRC from the Craigslist ad for the same instrument, 475 is actually the factory order number on this instrument, not the serial number. This is more likely around 1906. The seller has gotten bad advice about this instrument all the way round. There were more photos in the CL ad, but still nothing showing the neck damage.

It's a real Gibson, but not a realistic ad.

[journeybear]

Thanks for reminding me/us - I thought this rang a bell. Either this seller is clueless or there is something fishy with this deal. I'd steer clear.

[Goodin]

As has been noted repeatedly, 1898 is a patent date; factory production did not begin until a few years afterward. If I may:

The first serial numbers started in 1902 and ran until 1947. The serial numbers started with 100 and went to 99999. All numbers are approximate. In most cases, only the high end instruments were assigned identification numbers.

Year Made First serial number of that year Last serial number of that year
1903 ...... 100 ..................................... 1150

so this is a 1903. Why the seller is not providing more photos of what is supposedly a fine instrument is beyond my comprehension, and justifiable cause for apprehension.

the first serial numbered mandolin on the Mandolin Archive is #2502 with a date of 1902. If i am not mistaken, it is believed that the first serial numbers started at 2500.

[journeybear]

Hoo boy! I don't know for sure. All I know about this I learned either here or elsewhere on the web, where there is an enormous amount of information, a lot of it unverified, repeated hearsay, opinions presented as fact, etc, etc, to the point where my nickname for the interweb is the Misinformation Highway. And I hate being an agent of this misinformation, though it seems unavoidable at times.

To the point, I have somehow acquired two lists over the years, which are pretty much in agreement except early on. There is the one I referenced above, http://www.guitarattic.com/Gibson%20...%20Numbers.htm

Year Made First serial number of that year Last serial number of that year
1903 100 1150
1904 1151 1850
1905 1851 2550
1906 2551 3350
1907 3351 4250
1908 4251 5450
1909 5451 6950
1910 6951 8750
1911 8751 10850

and the Gibson Blue Book http://www.gibson.com/Files/download...ics.pdf‏

SERIAL NUMBERS
APPROX. LAST # YEAR
1500 1903
2500 1904
3500 1905
5500 1906
8300 1907
9700 1908
10100 1909
10600 1910
10850 1911

As you can see, there's a fair amount of discrepancy, until 1911. Knowing this, I usually cite one or the other list in discussions of this nature, especially when the SN in question isn't in on of the grey areas - as is the case here, if we are to believe #475 is an SN and not an FON.

At any rate, this is pretty moot. Obviously this instrument is not an 1898 - that is just impossible. Other approaches to accurate dating - well, have fun!

[Capt. E]

I just notice the ad today, now wanting $3300...that is closer to what it is worth, though the fuzzy picture of the back of the neck does seem to show a repaired break.
The original tailpiece cover should be a pineapple one and doesn't seem to have a case...

Worth maybe $1500 at best?

[mrmando]

Not even $1500. You should be able to get a pumpkin A3 with no issues at all for $1500-1800. This one has issues. The neck crack looks kinda scary. Seller says he was told not to repair it ... so who knows what shape it's in?

There is a case in one of the photos. Looks like a later '30s hardshell case, not original.

[Capt. E]

Yes, there are too many fine examples out there at fair prices where you know their history etc. This one would have to be a real bargin to be of interest here on the forum

[Jim Garber]

Here's a another early Gibson, very similar and about the same level of originality at a more reasonable starting bid. According to this seller, it was owned originally by his aunt.

[journeybear]

Also, this seller is up front about the two obviously more recent bits - tailpiece and case. This baby is in such good shape I'm willing to buy his aunt anecdote. Heck, it's 11 years older and still in better shape than mine. Love that rounded edge to the sound hole. So I gather this is an A-1. Beauty!

[woodwizard]

I had a 1906 that looked exactly like that except it didn't have the little diddy in the middle of the pickguard like this one. Also mine had a pineapple shaped tailpiece. If they are going for that I got rid of mine way too cheap ...

[woodwizard]

Looks like they dropped the price just a tad. Down from 5K to buy now at 4K with a start bid at 3500.00. Still pretty steep IMHO. More pics now too. Seen that peghead inlay on the white A3's. One pic of the back of the neck near the peghead looks like either a long deep scratch or a repaired neck crack. Hard to tell from the photo's. Does anyone know what year they discontinued the pineapple shaped tail piece?

[mrmando]

They discontinued the pineapple TP around 1910 or 1911. It was after this instrument was made, that's for certain. It has a replacement TPC.

In previous ads (but not in the current one) the seller says he has been advised not to get the neck fixed, whatever that means. So the neck crack may not even be repaired!

[journeybear]

It's back again: opening bid $2500, BIN $2800 or best offer - "Last Chance" - maybe!