Pick Guards on Oval Holes?

[Tavy]

I wonder what folks around here feel about (floating) pick guards on oval hole instruments?

It seems to me inevitable that the pick guard will effectly close off a not insignificant section of the sound hole, not to mention the cosmetic issue of hiding a big chunk of sound hole decoration

On the other hand... the cardboard mockup I've placed on the 'dola I'm working on appears not to have effected tone, so maybe I'm worrying unnecessarily?

Anyone ever experimented with a soundhole-shaped cutout in the pick guard so it follows the outline of the sound hole?

Thinking out loud yours, John.

[Doug Edwards]

I've done a few. Being a fan of the pg, it adds completeness as well as fuction.

[amowry]

I think whether it affects the sound might depend how wide the soundhole is (compare Doug's two examples above). You do lose some of the rosette no matter what, but it's a small enough portion that I don't think it matters much.

[Tavy]

Many thanks for the examples - I really like the curves on Doug's second example - I had worried that curving to match the soundhole would look too "fussy" - but as ever a touch of real world experience beats any amount of theorising

[SternART]

A. Lawrence Smart

[Jim Nollman]

When i first got my BRW oval, I was sure the pickguard would quickly come undone from my hard playing. Two years gone, and it hasn't budged. Nice design, Ben.

[Randy Smith]

Jim, enjoyed this a lot. I've heard this tune many times, so your arrangement sharpens it up for my ears. Hope you post more of your cd. Continued good luck with it,

Randy

[Dave Cohen]

A pickguard in the usual position partially over either an f-hole or an oval hole does not effectively cover part of the hole. The air resonance frequencies are determined by the volume of air in the cavity (acting as a spring) and the mass of air in the region of the soundhole(s). For the purposes of determining air resonance frequencies, the air in the region of the soundhole is determined by the area of the soundhole itself times about three times the thickness of the top plate at the soundhole. Suspended pickguards are usually well above that region. Nor will a pickguard partially in front of the soundhole region have much impact on the directional properties of the sound radiation coming from the soundhole. I used to worry about that, and made pickguards with scoops over the soundhole edge like the ones shown by Andrew and others. But I don't do that any more unless someone specifically wants a pickguard looking like that. The disadvantage of a scooped pickguard is that the players' pinky or ring finger may get 'hung' in the scoop, however briefly. If you are in doubt, try measuring the Helmholtz resonance frequency with and without a pickguard in place. You will see that the presence of the pickguard has no effect on it.

http://www.Cohenhmando.com

[Avi Ziv]

These all look great. How are the pick guards supported, other than by the fingerboard? Is there something below, resting on the top of the instrument? I've never seen one of these from close up

[Rob Grant]

Here's the way I work it.

I make up a continuous stainless steel 1.6mm wire frame which I laminate between two thin slices of local hardwood (in this case black ebony on top and "red ebony" underneath). The two pronges go into the fretboard extender and the third outrigger is bent over and fastened to the side just below the binding. I haven't had one come loose yet. They are easy to remove when necessary. And, I reckon, timber is much more attractive then the typical plastic guards.

Here's a diagram of the internal support and the finished product.

[Rob Grant]

Here's the underside of another guard (without the soundhole alteration) which shows the "red ebony" laminate. The wire frame is inletted between the two. Total thickness of the guard is ~4mm.

[Tavy]

A. Lawrence Smart

That one deserves some sort of prize, amazing

[Tavy]

A pickguard in the usual position partially over either an f-hole or an oval hole does not effectively cover part of the hole. The air resonance frequencies are determined by the volume of air in the cavity (acting as a spring) and the mass of air in the region of the soundhole(s). For the purposes of determining air resonance frequencies, the air in the region of the soundhole is determined by the area of the soundhole itself times about three times the thickness of the top plate at the soundhole. Suspended pickguards are usually well above that region. Nor will a pickguard partially in front of the soundhole region have much impact on the directional properties of the sound radiation coming from the soundhole. I used to worry about that, and made pickguards with scoops over the soundhole edge like the ones shown by Andrew and others. But I don't do that any more unless someone specifically wants a pickguard looking like that. The disadvantage of a scooped pickguard is that the players' pinky or ring finger may get 'hung' in the scoop, however briefly. If you are in doubt, try measuring the Helmholtz resonance frequency with and without a pickguard in place. You will see that the presence of the pickguard has no effect on it.

Thanks Dave, that's reassuring to hear. My own subjective experiments with lumps of cardboard sort of pointed that way, but it's good to hear that someone has investigated this properly!

Thanks, John.

[Avi Ziv]

Here's the underside of another guard (without the soundhole alteration) which shows the "red ebony" laminate. The wire frame is inletted between the two. Total thickness of the guard is ~4mm.

Rob - thanks for showing the extra details

Cheers

[DerTiefster]

You could also check out Jethro Burns' Gibson A-5 here: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...l=1#post854396
and its Japanese cousin in the following post.

[Paul Hostetter]

Just put a pickguard on it, and with regard to the acoustic aspects, get over it. This A-2Z was pristine when he bought it.

[Rick Turner]

I saw Dawg's '23 Loar when he first got it, too.

Hey, play the s... out of them! They sound better that way...they get their Tone Right! Right Chuck?

[Tavy]

Just put a pickguard on it, and with regard to the acoustic aspects, get over it. This A-2Z was pristine when he bought it.

I guess that's what happens if try and use a clarinet as a pick

[8ch(pl)]

The pickguards that I made for my Mid Missouris (2) are shaped similar to the ones that Andrew Lowry and Jim Noland have in their posts. Mine has a more square profile at the edge near the bridge, with maybe a 3/4 inch or so radius at the corners.

Since it is a Flat top, it sits almost on the the top. They were originally friction fit into the groove under the fingerboard, but they fall off easily. I pinned one of them with a brad, the other has a single drop of Cyanoacrylate adhesive. To keep The Pickguard off the top I put a Cork Disk, (1/2 inch) on the underside. It is located at the edge away from the soundhole and the Disk is directly over the X brace in order not to affect the sound.

[Rob Grant]

Great photo Paul. Think I'll put a copy above the work bench... A well used tool in the hands of a master craftsman!

[Amandalyn]

Not having a pick guard added to my oval Poe #8 was a cosmetic choice, I didn't want to hide any of the beautiful abalone rosette around the soundhole. ( see profile pic) or go to www.poestrings.com

[Rob Norton]

Here are a few shots of an early example, from a 1924 or 1925 Lyon and Healy "Washburn" style A:

The screw and pins hold it just off the soundboard, and if you bear down on it, it only touches where the red felt pad is.

[bobtheuke]

1949 vega d100 electric....all original....sound hole partialy blocked

[Mandolin Mick]

I don't need a pickguard because my playing doesn't mar the finish ... but I think Andy needs one ... badly ...

[Paul Hostetter]

I've posted this story a few times and just extricated it from the archives:

I guess it's clear now to one and all that pickguards don't block sound. A number of advanced players I know have gone full circle on this, from getting rid of them for one reason or another, to going back. No one made the case better than David Grisman a few summers ago at the Symposium. Andy Statman was onstage taking some good-hearted flak from the audience for the condition of his old A-2Z:



In self defense, he said his old teacher David Grisman had persuaded him to get rid of the guard when he bought it (it was allegedly in pristine condition at the time), and this was the result. Grisman was sitting ten feet away, dying a thousand deaths, and partly by example (he always has a guard on his mandolin) and partly in his own self defense said if he'd only known then what he knows now, he'd never have gone that route nor would he have recommended it to anyone else.



Ironically, very soon after that incident, Statman sold his battered A-2Z and got a new F-5, which I think has about 50% of the volume, depth and presence of the A-2Z. Maybe it's come along since I last saw him with it. But he still doesn't use a pickguard.

I fully understand that there are reasons why players wouldn't want a guard, but there are ways to protect a top without having an elevated guard. And ways to repair and prevent further damage.