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Thread: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

  1. #26
    Capt. E Capt. E's Avatar
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    I heard the story of a graduate student here at the University of Texas who had on loan a very nice old violin worth perhaps 200K and owned by the University. An opportunistic thief grabbed it from him when he was distracted and was gone before the student noticed. Took just seconds. The thief didn't begin to know what he had and tried to sell it at a local music store; some story about how it was his grandfather's and he needed $500 for it. The store owner knew he was looking at something very nice and worth much more than $500 (heck, the case was probably worth that much or more). The store owner had someone distract the guy while he went in the back to call the police... you can guess the rest.
    So, this Strad may have been taken by someone who really has no idea. Hope it turns up as easily.
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    BBC News mentioned, Ms. Kim stopping for a sandwich, figures Cnet would put a Tech spin on it.
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    I am surprised that something that valuable would not have some kind of "chip" inbedded in it.

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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    Quote Originally Posted by chris scott View Post
    I am surprised that something that valuable would not have some kind of "chip" inbedded in it.
    Great point...At least in the case. And the person in possession should have an emergency phone number which would immediately begin a track when dialed.
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    Active RFID/tracking chips need to be large enough to broadcast and have big bateries. The things in dogs and what not are passive RFIDs that are energized by a reader at close proximity. The desire, a small locator chip, technology isn't here yet.

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    Quote Originally Posted by chris scott View Post
    I am surprised that something that valuable would not have some kind of "chip" inbedded in it.
    Hm ... maybe because Stradivari predates any kind of electronics?

    I suppose one might put some kind of tracking device on the case, which could be useful as long as the case & violin are not separated. It would have to something fancier than a mere "chip." The type of RFID tag you can have surgically inserted in your cat does not emit a signal for remote detection ... you have to use a scanner in the immediate presence of the cat to detect it.

    I have researched the various commercially available "remote child locator" devices, and the affordable ones all have plenty of consumer reviews saying that they don't work as advertised.
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    One thing that might be feasible is a pair of RFIDs that trigger an alarm if they are moved a certain distance from each other ... say, 30 feet or more. One in the case and one in your pocket. If your pocket beeps unexpectedly, you know the case is on the move.
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    Quote Originally Posted by chris scott View Post
    I am surprised that something that valuable would not have some kind of "chip" inbedded in it.
    Yep, like in rental cars, with a GPS receiver and an integrated mobile phone. Could be made the size of a pack of cigarettes, I guess, including battery. At last something to fill all that useless space inside the violin

    Other approach: when put into playing position, a knife blade will snap out of the chin rest, unless the player types in the correct PIN first. There'd have to be a big yellow warning sticker...
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    Martin, I think you could have a successful career as a mystery writer.

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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertram Henze View Post
    Other approach: when put into playing position, a knife blade will snap out of the chin rest, unless the player types in the correct PIN first. There'd have to be a big yellow warning sticker...
    Or not ...

    Though you are assuming the thief would be the next person to play it, which is probably not likely. More likely to sell to an intermediary (dealer, fence), who would then sell it to someone who would be a violinist, and may or may not be aware of the instrument's recent history. No, any deterrent apparatus should be activated to "get" the perpetrator, or, really, prevent the theft in the first place. But we are just indulging in a bit of whimsy.
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    Someone noted that the article that appeared in Cnet focused on the tech aspects. I noticed that too, and thought it odd how the writer concentrated more on the violinist's distraction than the actual theft. Is that really the moral of this story? I can't entirely disagree. People seem inordinately fond of iphones and similar hand-held devices, and distraction is rampant. Many times as I walk or bike around I see a lot of people walking along the sidewalk or driving their cars (and even bikes) with something pressed to their ears or their noses buried in something hand-held, nearly oblivious to their surroundings. I almost got run over a few days ago by someone who was so focused on whatever he was texting that he hadn't noticed the light had changed. He may have been keeping half an eye on the car ahead of him but didn't see the light, and certainly didn't see me. Until I yelled at him. Then it was like, "Wha'?" I have to wonder - what is so fascinating on the other end of that telecommunicative connection? Ever see a couple walking side by side, each on a cell phone to someone else? This stuff gets pretty rude, if you ask me. Of course, if you want to ask me, you'll have to call my land line and leave a message.
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    Registered User Knucklehead's Avatar
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    "Please provide the details about where or when any stolen Stradivarius turned up after many decades in some obsessive collector's vaults. "

    Two of the more notable Strad thefts of the 20th century involve the Gibson Strad (now played by Joshua Bell) and the Duke of Alcantara Strad. Both of these were missing for a number of years; when they finally turned up, they were in the hands of ordinary people who happened upon them by luck and who had never sought to establish their value. I.e., not obsessive collectors!


    That Huberman Strad's value was well known, the theft was published in most of the Eastern papers. it was stolen in the late '30s from his dressing room at Carnegie Hall by Julian Altman, who was a local hack. He knew the value of the instrument to the extent that he confessed to it's theft on his deathbed. The insurance company that carried the policy paid out $30K, which was a helluva lot of money in the pre-war Depression era 1930s. ( Over $500,000++. in current day value)
    While he (Julian Altman) may not have been a collector, he certainly didn't amount to much in his career, and obsessively kept this stolen violin for 51 years.

    In the same vein, Ed King, one of the original members of Lynyrd Skynyrd, had his prized '59 Les Paul Sunburst stolen at gunpoint back in the '80s. A coffee table reference book on late '50s Les Pauls was authored by Yasuhiko Iwanade and the stolen guitar was prominently pictured and referenced. Ed happened to come across the book at a Guitar show and recognized his Les Paul. It turns out it was his stolen guitar and it ended up with the famous guitar collector Dirk Ziff, who had bought it thru a couple of dealers years before. King hired lawyers, and finally got his favorite guitar back. Ziff apparently has over 100 1950s Les Pauls in his collection, so it's questionable whether he missed one.

    There are many cases of artwork, jewelry, coins, valuable collectables, and musical instruments that have turned up in collections. Harry Winston was a family friend, and he used to tell my parents stories about some of his prized acquisitions and how they were "looted" many years ago, and hidden away, only to become available thru auction houses. There's an ongoing effort to return or compensate the owners and museums of artwork that was seized by the Third Reich for Hitler and Goering's collections. Much of it was stored away in Bavaria's salt mines. Not to malign collectors, but there are those who would rather have a valuable, and hide it away from the public, than seek some immediate financial ransom.

    From The Financialcouncel.com article by R.L. Moshman:
    An exact count is never certain because Strads are constantly going missing or turning up all over the world. Daniel Pearl, the reporter from The Wall Street Journal who was slain in Pakistan, covered several of these Stradivarius capers in an October 17, 1994 article. The 1735-"Ex-Zimbalist" Stradivarius, which had been missing for 30 years, had been recently photographed in Japan…but is still missing. In 1951, amidst the Korean war, a genuine Stradivarius turned up in the wall of a South Korean home. "The Colossus," a unique Stradivarius violin of slightly larger size,
    was stolen in Rome in 1998..... Makes you wonder what it was doing in Japan and why the photograph, same thing as the one hidden in a wall in the South Korean home.
    Last edited by Knucklehead; Dec-11-2010 at 11:31am.

  13. #38
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    Quote Originally Posted by Knucklehead View Post
    That Huberman Strad's value was well known, the theft was published in most of the Eastern papers. it was stolen in the late '30s from his dressing room at Carnegie Hall by Julian Altman, who was a local hack. He knew the value of the instrument to the extent that he confessed to it's theft on his deathbed.
    Not quite. Rather, Altman's deathbed confession included the claim that he had bought the violin for $100 in a chance encounter, presumably with the thief.

    But it's at least probable that the 1936 theft of the Gibson Strad was a targeted theft: (a) it had been stolen from Huberman once before; (b) it was, as you say, taken from his Carnegie Hall dressing room while he was downstairs performing on a different violin. Quite a different set of circumstances than snatching a violin from a sandwich shop. And if it's true that Altman bought the Gibson for $100, that would just point up the difficulty of fencing a stolen Strad for anything approaching its true value, even in 1936.

    AFAIK the Strad discovered in Korea in 1951 had not been documented before then ... so to say it had been stolen would be to presume things we don't know. It's equally presumptuous to say that the Colossus or any other missing Strad is in a collector's vault. Again, we don't know.

    And of course, as with the Les Paul, the presence of a stolen instrument in a collection does not prove that the collector orchestrated the theft.
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    Then why would Altman bother to "confess" to buying a $100.violin? If you do some research, the $100. figure was part of a story concocted by Altman and his wife so that she could negotiate the return of the Huberman violin to the insurance company without being accused of the theft. It was convenient and face saving to claim he bought it for a $100. from an unknown person. The wife supposedly received around $280K for her "trouble" upon surrendering the violin.

    I know quite a few collectors, who speak about somewhat iconic instruments that have ended up in collections outside the USA, whose owners, and I assume "trophy" collectors are somewhat nefarious characters, at least the instruments are not played publicly.

    I'm not a fan of "collectors", for obvious reasons, it's apparent you feel different. There are still something like a dozen Strads that have disappeared, and then there's the balance of those viols that were made during the creator's lifetime that have not surfaced. Then there' are many other instruments from that period that are equally valuable. To say that all these instruments are in the hands of people that are using them daily professionally or otherwise, would be somewhat naive.

    I did not insinuate, that Ed King's Les Paul presence in someones collection was some sort of conspiracy. It's a well known fact that the the owner of the collection is a very private person, and very few have seen his collection. Supposedly one has to don special clothing to handle any of his instruments. I am not familiar as to whether he is a musician or not. Granted some have musical background and play their instruments on a limited basis. I don't think this is the case here.
    Last edited by Knucklehead; Dec-11-2010 at 7:07pm.

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    Quote Originally Posted by Knucklehead View Post
    Then why would Altman bother to "confess" to buying a $100.violin?
    You can believe Altman's story, or not, but you don't know for certain what happened.
    I know quite a few collectors, who speak about somewhat iconic instruments that have ended up in collections outside the USA, whose owners, and I assume "trophy" collectors are somewhat nefarious characters, at least the instruments are not played publicly.
    It's one thing to dislike collectors who keep instruments tucked away, and another to insinuate that they obtained those instruments by stealing them.
    To say that all these instruments are in the hands of people that are using them daily professionally or otherwise, would be somewhat naive.
    Good thing I never said that, then! It is likely that some of those instruments were destroyed or discarded by the thieves, as was the Strad cello in Los Angeles, and will never be recovered.
    I did not insinuate, that Ed King's Les Paul presence in someones collection was some sort of conspiracy.
    Yes you did, although you may not have meant to. You propounded a conspiracy theory about the theft of the Strad in London, and when I challenged you, you gave the example of the Les Paul in defense of your original theory.
    Last edited by mrmando; Dec-11-2010 at 8:39pm.
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    How is making a comment that IMO the theft of the London Strad was an inside job turn into a conspiracy theory, there are people who feel the same as I do. It's very possible that this theft was not a snatch and grab, but a planned event. Make of it what you will.

    My initial comment was not a statement of fact involving the stolen Strad, it was an analogy involving collectable items ending up in collectors' vaults. Believe me, people who own '59 Les Paul feel they are every bit as desirable as a violin from the Golden Era.


    Evidently you know more about everything than anyone else on this forum, so my hats off to you. Good Luck!
    Last edited by Knucklehead; Dec-11-2010 at 9:34pm.

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    Quote Originally Posted by Knucklehead View Post
    How is making a comment that IMO the theft of the London Strad was an inside job turn into a conspiracy theory
    Your theory would seem to entail at least two individuals—a thief and a collector—who cooperate in some capacity to obtain a violin by theft. When two or more criminals work together to commit a crime, that's a conspiracy. Therefore, your theory is a conspiracy theory by simple definition.
    Evidently you know more about everything than anyone else on this forum, so my hats off to you. Good Luck!
    Rather, since your theory concerning the London theft is at odds with both the available evidence and the opinion of the investigators, it is you who must somehow have information about the case that no one else has.

    P.S. Concerning the Gibson Strad, there's a lengthy article at Joshua Bell's Web site, with much more detail than I've seen anywhere else, written by one James Pegolotti. In it he reveals that Altman's widow, Marcelle Hall, told two different stories in her testimony during a court case to settle Altman's estate: the "bought it for $100" story and the "stole it myself" story. Pegolotti concludes:
    Will it ever be known how Altman acquired the Gibson Stradivarius and when Hall came to know of it? It's very unlikely. The truth is buried now in Claremont, New Hampshire and in Bethel, Connecticut with the two major players of the story.
    I don't dispute that Altman knew the value of the violin ... that much seems clear from Pegolotti's story ... but if Pegolotti couldn't reach a definite conclusion about who stole it, then neither can any of us. Furthermore, what's evident from this article is that Altman was neither a "hack" nor a collector: he had been a good enough violinist to play as a member of the National Symphony, and he didn't keep the Gibson hidden away, but performed with it openly.
    Last edited by mrmando; Dec-12-2010 at 4:59am.
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    All right, you two! You're never going to agree. It seems you have somehow landed in The Argument Clinic Sketch:

    Man: I came here for a good argument.
    Mr Vibrating: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    Man: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    Mr Vibrating: It can be.
    Man: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    Mr Vibrating: No it isn't.
    Man: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    Mr Vibrating: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    Man: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    Mr Vibrating: Yes it is!
    Man: No it isn't!
    Man: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
    (short pause)
    Mr Vibrating: No it isn't.

    And so on ...
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  19. #44
    Registered User John Flynn's Avatar
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    Very good, journeybear! Very appropos for this thread.

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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    They seem to be getting desperate - the insurers had a half page advertisement in "The Times" yesterday seeking information and offering the reward.

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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    I guy I know here in California who is a small scale dealer and trader of fretted instruments who purchased recently a 1957 Les Paul and listed it on ebay with a starting bid of $17000. Back in Minnisota another man had a search on ebay that would notify him anytime some instrument was listed that was similar to the instruments that were stolen from him a decade earlier. When this particular Paul showed up he instantly recognized it as his and notified the police. My friend of course cooperated with the police and the guitar got back to it's rightful owner,which, turns out, is the insurance company that payed off when the guitar was originally stolen. Now,the dealer that got stung is trying to recoup some of his loses by going back through the chain of ownership and good luck to him. There isn't any title and registration that goes with these things, like for a car or boat and it would be very easy to end up with a stolen instrument. I have sold and traded or consigned instruments to some of the most,by reputation, reliable and respected dealers and there was never any requirement and non actually existed anyway(sometimes there is a receipt sometimes not and for the most part they are meaningless anyway) that I was the rightful owner. Had something in my possession turned out to have been stolen and it had been consigned to a music store it would then have taken on a new round of legitimacy-----"I bought it at (fill your favorite music store)". Come to think of it I traded an old Vega banjo and some cash to the guy who listed the Paul for a mandolin and there were no receipts,neither for the banjo in my possession or the mandolin in his. So maybe I shouldn't show up in public with this mandolin?

  22. #47
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    Quote Originally Posted by mandroid View Post
    BBC News mentioned, Ms. Kim stopping for a sandwich ...
    I suspect that Ms. Kim asked for a ham sandwich but the thieves tried to talk her into roast beef w/ lettuce & tomato!
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    Probably a good job it wasn't a cello! - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3728193.stm

    One thing that nobody has mentioned is that there was also a violin bow in the case but that was only worth £62,000.

  24. #49
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    take Martin's proximity separation detector devise, and add a Taser into the case ,
    and maybe one of those ultra-violet dye marker spray guns,
    to mark the perp,
    and there is an improved possibility of just deserts,
    maybe justice.
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    Registered User John Flynn's Avatar
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    Default Re: $1.9 million Strad stolen while violinist checked her iPhone

    According to to the British Transport Police site, three people have been arrested in the theft, a John Maughan of "no fixed address" and two teenagers. The instrument is still missing. The focus of the search for the instrument is the "traveling community" in England an Ireland, which I believe means the so-called Irish Travelers. This does suggest the three worked as a team and it was a planned, professional theft, although I will be interested to learn whether the three thieves targeted the musician and knew what she had, or it was a target of opportunity.

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