Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Take The A Train

  1. #1
    Registered User Don Julin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Traverse City, Michigan
    Posts
    424

    Default Take The A Train

    Howdy folks and Merry Christmas. I just uploaded a 2 part video demonstrating how I play the Duke Ellington standard, Take The A Train. Here is Pt. 1

  2. #2
    Registered User Don Julin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Traverse City, Michigan
    Posts
    424

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    And Pt.2

  3. The following members say thank you to Don Julin for this post:


  4. #3
    Registered User John Soper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Posts
    1,356

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    Love this tune & ever since hearing Jethro's version, have worked on a version of my own. I loved his whole tone licks during the E7+ chord. Thanks for posting these videos.

  5. #4
    Registered User Cheryl Watson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    St. Augustine, Florida, USA
    Posts
    1,508

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    This is awesome, Don. Thanks so much for taking the time to record and post it.

  6. #5
    Registered User MandoNicity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Aspen Colorado
    Posts
    710

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    This is fantastique! Many thanks for this Don! It's very clear and easy to follow. I need to get out my mando now!

    JR

  7. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Portsmouth,Ohio
    Posts
    1,021

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    Tres cool,Don. Appreciate it a lot.
    Jim

  8. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    Great, Don! Thanks, and see you soon.

    Cheers,
    rich

  9. #8
    Registered User Bob Scrutchfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    182

    Thumbs up Re: Take The A Train

    Thanks Don
    That was really great. I really liked your instruction about the different techniques of keeping time and playing chord rythms.
    Rover RM-75 F Style
    Kentucky 380S A Model
    Washburn A Model
    Washburn Bowlback Model 71- circa 1891

    ************************************************** *****************

    " There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. "
    ~ Claude Debussy - Composer
    .

  10. #9
    Distressed Model John Ritchhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Mars Hill, North Carolina
    Posts
    1,036

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    Nice groove, Don. Loved it.
    We few, we happy few.

  11. #10
    Registered User swampstomper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Arnhem, the Netherlands; Nanjing, China; Ithaca NY USA
    Posts
    1,868

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    Thanks for posting this Don. I worked through the two lessons. Three questions:

    1. You mention substitutions, and in your rhythm playing you throw in a few different chord forms that you don't mention in the instruction. I think I caught them, but maybe if you could add a Part III with embellishments/substitutions? (Maybe that's where the E7+ chord mentioned above comes in?)

    2. There are two more parts to this tune: the intro and the very short outtro. I have these both in the Real Book. The outtro is just a bass line from the F up to the C... of course the bass and piano normally play this but for a solo mando we can play it too. The intro is a piano theme, in my Real Book charted as C/G to Ab7(#5)/Gb. I play these as 0 2 3 0 (5th 3rd Root 3rd) to 1 2 3 2 (Root #5th 3rd b7th), of course can't get the Gb in the bass. How do you voice that part?

    3. The chart has a D9(#11) where you have a D7. The D7 sounds just fine. The 9th and #11 are the melody notes E and G#, and I gather from your explanation that's why you omit them, to avoid doubling the lead. Is that right? If those are omitted the D9(#11) becomes a simple D7.

    Thanks again for posting, I love this tune, especially the version by Jethro/Sam/Vassar/Norman/Tut.

  12. #11
    Registered User Don Julin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Traverse City, Michigan
    Posts
    424

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    Swampstomper, I will try to answer your questions as best I can.

    1. Chord Substitutions? I feel that showing chord substitutions for one specific song is a bit misleading. This tune belongs to a body of work based on improvisation and reharmonization called jazz. Once you understand the function of each chord you can alter/substitute a variety of things based on your understanding of jazz concepts. The Great Joe Pass felt that there were only 3 types of chords in jazz. Major, minor, and dominant. As a very general rule we add (extend) notes from the key we are in to major and minor chords. For instance G major could become G major7, G6, or G9. All notes from the key of G major.The same is true of minor chords. Am when functioning as the ii chord could become Am7, Am9, Am11, once again all notes from the key of G major. Where the fun begins is with dominant chords. In jazz we have the right to alter dominant chords. By altering, I we add notes that are not in the key. We can even move the established notes by a half step to create some very interesting, high tension chords. The basic rule here is to alter the 5th and 9th of the chord. For example D7 is made up of the notes d,f#,a,c. A, being the 5th of the chord could be moved to Ab making the chord D7b5 or could be raised to A# making the chord D7#5 (augmented). The 9th is not in the chord at this time so we could add an Eb making the chord D7b9 or an F natural making it D7#9. Many times these altered notes are in the melody so as long as we stay out of the way it is not necessary for everyone to play the altered note. In fact it sounds better if everyone does not play it. What you do NOT want to do is play a dominant chord voicing with a normal 5th if the melody is implying a altered 5th. My favorite dominant chord shapes do not have a 5th in them for that very reason.

    I think may have answered question 3 also. I will address question 2 in another post. I have a student scheduled in a few minutes.

    Hope this helps.

  13. #12
    Registered User Don Julin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Traverse City, Michigan
    Posts
    424

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    OK I'm back. sorry about the long post. Chord substitutions is a deep topic and I only scratched the surface with my last post.
    2. Intro and ending. Maybe a 3rd video would be good. Due to limitations of mandolin, (compared to a piano) we need to try to get the essence of the sound. I like your chords for the intro. Most of the time I assume that someone else in the band can cover that bass note better than I so don't loose much sleep over not playing the complete chord Ab7#5/Gb. Without the bass note we have /C/Ab7#5/. The C chord could be played 0-2-3-x, like the first C chord you ever played without the 4th string. The Ab7#5 could be 1-2-3-x. A very easy and good sounding chord change. Another option would be to try to highlight the bass movement by only playing 2 notes. Try x-5-7-x for the C and x-4-7-x for the Ab7#5. I know these are not complete chords but I tend to play smaller 2 or 3 note chords in music like this.

    Ending: I just forgot to put it on the video. It is pretty straight forward. Just follow the the right hand rule: if it is an "and" it is an upstroke. So for those that do not this ending it is c,e,f,f#,g,a,b,c. Pick direction would be DUDDDUDU.

  14. #13
    Registered User John Soper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Posts
    1,356

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    Don: I learned this tune with an E7+ (augmented) as the second chord of the A section on guitar, but like the avoidance of the G# when using a D7 (E7+ is D7#11 isn't it?). Also often use the G7b5 (or Db7) as the interchangeable dominant chord sounds on the mandolin heading back to C. For straight rhythm using "Jethro" chords on the bottom 3 string sets, I'll voice a line that begins either using descending or ascending figures:

    Descending: C 5-5-7-x , D9 5-4-7-x, Dm7 5-3-5-x, G7 4-3-5-x to G7b5 (Db7) 4-3-4-x, C6 2-2-3-x

    Ascending: C 5-5-7-x, E7+ 5-6-7-x, Dm7 7-7-8-x, G7 7-5-8-x to G7b5/Db7 4-3-4-x, C6 2-2-3-x

    And because of the G# and function of the second chord as an altered II7, that has the same notes as an E7+ you can move in whole steps... either the augmented shape (5-6-7) or the dom 9 shape (5-4-9) or individual notes in a lead.

  15. #14
    Registered User Don Julin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Traverse City, Michigan
    Posts
    424

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    Oh No! I may have opened a can of worms here. Sure you can use the Db7 as a tritone sub for the G7. This is why I did not go into many substitutions on this video. If I played it one way, a bunch of people would jump in saying that they play it this, way and oh yeah that one guy does it this way, and the truth is, they all might sound good, and if it sounds good it IS good. My goal with these tunes is to try to understand the composition first, then re-harmonize it. My goal with the video was to teach the tune to some mandolin players in a way that they can play it fairly quickly using good technique. I even mention in the video that most people embellish these changes more.

    John, in general I like your voice leading and I can see how E7#5 may look like the same thing and in some ways it is very similar. After all the melody is E and G#...or is it Ab? The way I hear this part of the song is very much a whole tone scale type of sound. C,D,E,Gb,Ab,Bb,C. This is a scale that works well with altered dominant chords. BUT..........a chord progression of C/E7/Dm7/G7/C/ doesn't make much sense to me. If the second chord was E7 that would indicate the next chord would most likely be an A, followed by D,G, ending up back at C. (think 5 foot 2 eyes of Blue) I think if we strip away all of the jazz in this tune we have a very basic progression. C, followed by D7 (secondary dominant) G7 and back to C.

    Now if we add the jazz back in we get an altered dominant for the D7, put a iim7 before the V7 and we have /Dm7/G7/C/. I like to take these tunes apart until they make sense to me. Everyone has their own way of explaining this stuff, but I tend to think that it is simpler than it looks if we stare at it long enough.

    I am sorry for starting one of these dreaded music theory threads. It really wasn't my intention.

  16. #15
    Registered User Don Julin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Traverse City, Michigan
    Posts
    424

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    Hey John I just checked out your band. Sounds cool! I see you will be at the Aladdin Theatre in a few weeks. My daughter lives about a block from there.

  17. #16
    Registered User swampstomper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Arnhem, the Netherlands; Nanjing, China; Ithaca NY USA
    Posts
    1,868

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    Don, no apology needed. Your posted lessons accomplished their purpose for me -- I can play a nice jazzy version of A Train, enjoy it, sit in with others. A big !! Thank you !! for sharing.

    The theory does get interesting, it's not "dreaded". For example your explanation of how you see the basic structure, so the substitutions/embellishments fit well in that structure, was very helpful. I also didn't like the E7 or E+ idea (I tried to play it that way), but couldn't figure out why, your explanation made it clear. Like you I like to have a clear idea of the underlying structure of a song. No different in Texas-style backup: all those fancy substitutions must fit into the basic progression.

    I liked the recent column by Don Steinberg in Mandolin Magazine on "All of Me", where he shows the vanilla chords and then explains how various substitutions might fit. That's what I was thinking of when I suggested a Part III. But anyway your followup posts here have given me plenty to experiment with.

  18. #17
    Registered User John Soper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Posts
    1,356

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    Don:

    Yeah, that E7+ in the chord chart I learned off of never made structural sense to me- maybe over-analyzed enharmonic cr@p to incorporate the G#/Ab... and don't ever apologize about the theory - it gives me something to hang my hat on & makes me think about more than just the notes. I think D7 or D9 works much better, and makes more sense.

    Thanks again for starting this string. This is such a fun tune - I often play it with the Sunday afternoon boys...

    FYI N.E.D. is mostly straight out R&R, but I have managed to work some mandolin into the gig. Hope your daughter comes out for a good cause...

  19. #18

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    Does anyone know if these videos are still floating around somewhere. they appear to have been deleted

  20. The following members say thank you to JaredGulliford for this post:


  21. #19
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Forest Grove, Oregon
    Posts
    2,775

    Default Re: Take The A Train

    YouTube is your friend.
    Not all the clams are at the beach

    Arrow Manouche
    Arrow Jazzbo
    Arrow G
    Clark 2 point
    Gibson F5L
    Gibson A-4
    Ratliff CountryBoy A

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •