Wolle, Roland, et al

[vkioulaphides]

A mando-friend of mine from Germany just sent me a few typical "new German school" picks: two by Wolle —one in bright blue!— and one by Roland. All were bought new from Trekel, but were (mercifully) pre-filed, as I had pleaded rank ignorance in such matters.

First of all, I must, once again, eat my words. Responding to some old thread —I forget which one right now— I had once speculated that the alleged difficulty of playing tremolo with such picks went hand-in-hand with German mandolin orchestras' avoidance of tremolo altogether. Well, I was wrong: These picks tremolo as smoothly and naturally as any I have ever played. There is no causal correlation between the taste of German mandolin orchestras and any putative inability (or at least difficulty) of playing tremolo with the picks they use.

I do miss the extra bit of length, i.e. the extra 1-2 mm. length all my Pettine-type picks have over the new-school German picks. I am, in other words, a bit uncomfortable feeling my hand ever so much closer to the strings; I am used to hovering a bit higher above. But that is merely a habit, and I am "learning the new language" only since yesterday evening.

Wolle picks, and less so Roland, are gummy, rubbery. Is that good? Is that bad? I really cannot say. If avoiding pick-noise is the intention, well, the intention merely transposes the problem: the pick-noise is there, but simply of a lower frequency; the "click-a-clack" is now a "thud-a-whack".

More importantly, though, these picks get a significantly different tone out of the same mandolin than the hard, natural material picks I normally use: Gone is the metallic tinkle of the strings, gone is the sheen of the tremolo, or the sheer splash of a four-course chord; instead,the instrument warbles sweetly and smoothly, without effort it seems, and all the attacks fall right on the perfect spot of the pick. On my naturally bright, new Calace, the tone is quite lovely, albeit different from what I am used to .

Now all I need is a new-school German mandolin, complete with flatwound strings and cetacean bowl, to fully appreciate the wooly Wolle.

[mandocaster]

Wie geht es Ihnen? Ich muß Google verwenden übersetze für Deutschen. Meine Sprachfähigkeiten sind- sehr schlecht.

Is there any US source for those picks?

[vkioulaphides]

Trekel is perhaps the largest source for plucked instruments and their paraphernalia in Europe; they are primarily a publisher of music. I am sure you can get just about anything from them.

The snag is, if you have to pay a $20 flat fee to a bank for an international check, plus the nasty (percentage) commission for the currency exchange, does it really pay to buy $3 worth of picks?

My advice would be this: Since Trekel is such an excellent source, look up their website; select some of the wonderful publications that they circulate; throw in some strings and a whole bunch of picks for good measure.

If, in other words, you make this a larger order, say, your Christmas present to yourself, then the cost of the actual transaction is spread a bit more reasonably amongst the various items you will be buying.

[Jim Garber]

I thought that Plucked String carried those picks some time ago. I would contact them first, if you are in the US.

Or if you are going to CMSA and can wait, there may even be some there.

Jim

[vkioulaphides]

By way of parenthesis: It appears now that one of the reasons these picks sound so good on my Calace is that it is strung with Lenzner Consorts, with their flatwound A's; after all, flatwound strings are the "other end" of the Wolle equation.

I am having some trouble getting anything better than a rather crass attack from the solid-steel A's on my other mandos. Just a thought...

[Jim Garber]

I think these picks are intended to go with Thomastik strings.

Jim

[vkioulaphides]

Figures...

[John Craton]

Very happy to read your post, vkioulaphides. I've been using the Wolle because of my hand (I'm the one with a semi-crippled right hand). I am very happy to hear that you have found the Wolle amenable to the tremolo, but I continue having problems in that regard. Usually if I play a piece with a lot of tremolo I switch to a Wegen. Problem with the Wegen, though, is that it sometimes slips in my numb fingers. How and where do you hold the Wolle? Perhaps you can shed light on a secret that will help me improve my tremolo with it. Overall I definitely prefer the Wolle for most pieces (rather prefer the "thud-a-whack" over the typical clickity-clack of the firmer plectra).

As to other comments, yes, the Wolle was designed to be used primarily with the flat-wound Thomastiks, which is what I use. I have a German Herwiga that sounds wonderful with the Wolle and not so good with the Wegen. I recently acquired a Neapoiltan Euterpia (info posted elsewhere) and have been trying both plectra with it. Still prefer the Wolle for single notes, but tremolo is unquestionably easier for me with the Wegen.

Wolle plectra are available from Plucked Strings. I believe they run $4.50 each -- at least that was the price the last time I ordered some from them. To my knowledge they're the only source for the Wolle in the U.S. (Didn't know they came in anything but white, though.)

[french]

i live in germany and would happy to order stuff for anyone from trekel and send it without any surcharge but the cost of german luftpost to the states.

i haven't really though how i would manage this, but would probably want some form of prepayment in dollars before doing the transaction with trekel.

i have no problems ordering these things and dropping them off at the german post office for shipment and just want to offer a free service if it makes sense for anyone.

cheers!

- tom

[vkioulaphides]

Gosh, John... you are asking ME how I hold the Wolle? The first time I ever played one was yesterday evening, for a half-hour or so!

Well, then: I hold it no different than any other pick; that's probably why it feels short, compared to my Pettine-type picks. I guess I ought to hold it further up. Who knows?

The round hole and the surrounding perforations just feel weird; they neither help nor hurt. Ostensibly they are there to help the grip; I don't see how, as I've never experienced slippage— except with the cheap, plastic thingies sold everywhere and used to no good effect.

I suppose the "click vs. thud" issue is contextual: I get so much sheen (i.e. a "cloud" of upper partials) when playing tremolo with an ivory pick, that the clicking of the rigid pick is simply subsumed in the total sound effect. With the more subdued —detractors would say "dull"— tone of the Wolle, the whacking is quite audible. The pudding is in the eating, and the varying tastebuds...

In short —or rather in my usual rambling fashion— I would simply strive for the sound I like best. I am a firm believer in letting the ear dictate the technical choices.

And with advice as useless as mine, you're better off that way anyway! #

[Martin Jonas]

The pick I use on my bowlbacks is halfway between a Wolle and a Wegen, I guess, and much easier to get hold of than either: a Jim Dunlop nylon, usually in 0.88mm, but sometimes I use a 1mm. I have several Wegen picks as well, and use a 1.0mm Wegen on my F-style, but for the bowlback it's too clicky for my taste.

John: if you have problems with slippage on the Wegen, you can also get them with holes pre-drilled to improve grip. I guess you could drill them yourself as well if need be. I'm with Victor in that I've never had slippage problems with any of my picks, but the Dunlop nylon picks also have a pattern of bumps on them to improve grip.

Martin

[John Craton]

John: if you have problems with slippage on the Wegen, you can also get them with holes pre-drilled to improve grip. #

Thanks, Martin. I've thought about maybe dragging out my Dremel and punching a few holes in it to see if it would stay in place better. The slippage isn't due to any fault of the Wegen, but to my hand. My index finger is permanently bent in one position and all of my right hand is mostly numb. I'm just trying to find a way to work around it. The Wolle stays put pretty well, being rubbery and a littlt sticky. I use a loose hold and could probably have better control with a tighter grip, but that tends to produce unwanted nuances (such as a lack of dynamics). I'm beginning to get more adjusted to it, so I'm hopeful things will work out okay. At least the injury gives me a good excuse for when I really flub a passage.

[Bob A]

John, you might consider gluing some cork gasket material to the picks. It's possible it would aid your grip in a couple ways.

[Plamen Ivanov]

Hello!

Do I realize a positive changed treatment to the German rubber picks? Two years ago I was the only one who expressed a positive attitude to them. A Herwiga Mandolin manufactured in Markneukirchen is also the choice of Prof. Marga-Wilden Husgen. As far this topic is also "Sprechen Sie Deutsch?" related, here is the original text:

"Zu den Fragen bezüglich meiner Mandoline: es ist eine
Herwiga-Mandoline auch
Markneunkirchen von 1960, es sehr warm-klingendes und überaus lautes
Instrument,"

Good luck!

[trebleclef528]

Hi,
You may already be aware but as far as I know there are three different types of Wolle plectrums (or similar to the Wolle),which go from the Hardest to the Softest in the following order: Black, Blue, White/Cream.

I think the Black and White are Wolle but although very similar I don't think the Blue is by Wolle (but just out of interest I'll try to find out) although you can get them all from Trekel.

I've been quite surprised what a good response these plectrums get - most people take a look at them and say YUUEGH or something to that effect, but when they use them they seem to change their opinion....... we mainly use Wolle in our orchestra and they certainly cut down on "plectrum against string" noise and they are particularly good with the large German Bowlbacks - all of course need the obligatory sand papering job before use (The plectrums not the bowlbacks).
Best wishes to you all!
Ian

[Eugene]

Do I realize a positive changed treatment to the German rubber picks? #Two years ago I was the only one who expressed a positive attitude to them.

I hope you don't take my non-use of Wolle-/Wegen-style plectra as a negative attitude towards them. I love to listen to Weyhofen, Lichtenberg, Ahlert, Tewes, etc. They do what they do very well, it's a joy to hear, and I would not want them to change. I just prefer to walk a different, slightly noisier (and certainly, if my feet are doing the tredding, less adept) path.

[Arto]

"The snag is, if you have to pay a $20 flat fee to a bank for an international check, plus the nasty (percentage) commission for the currency exchange, does it really pay to buy $3 worth of picks?"

Every time I have ordered something from Trekel, I have used my Visa card by faxing them the card details along with my order. (They don´t have a secure server, so I don´t want to email card details.) Works nicely and I save in the bank fees (I HATE bank fees). I can´t see any reason why you could not use the same procedure ordering from outside EU. I don´t know which credit cards they accept, but they very gladly answer questions by email. They are a very nice bunch of people: Joachim Trekel is a nice elderly gentleman, and his daughter Maren is as friendly person as you can wish, and speaks excellent English.

best wishes, Arto

[vkioulaphides]

Interesting point, Ian. Wolle-ignorant that I am, I have not (yet) noticed any difference between my blue and my white/cream Wolle picks—#oh, and both ARE indeed labeled "Wolle". I just thought the color was, ehm... incidental.

The Roland I just got, i.e. the black one, is my least favorite so far; maybe, again, I don't "speak the language". Let's see...

Plamen, I still prefer the hardest materials I can get: ivory, horn, etc. But, contrary to my crabby rhetoric, I am more open-minded than I seem.

[Plamen Ivanov]

Hello Victor,

Here is something, that I know you like more, than the Wolle picks. Having in mind your Wolle picks ignorance, I should make it clear, that it`s just about the shape (although the shape is similar), not about the taste! :-)

[Bob A]

I tried calamata olives but they get the strings all rusty. Was I supposed to use the pits?

I tried dozens of picks on each of the dozen mandolins, and find that some prefer one, others another. I can't trem worth a darn with very pointy picks, I find, but so far the most satisfactory materials have been tortoise, the strange plastic used in the old Pettine picks, an odd pick produced in Rochester decades ago and labelled Santos Supreme.

There's a guy selling picks on ebay to collectors (yes, Virginia, there are pick addicts. There's a collector for just about anything you can imagine; the shadier ones don't use ebay).

Almost all picks click; the tortoise ones seem to click at a frequency that is covered up by the overtones of the instrument, so the noise is much less noticeable. I have only one sort of rubbery pick, a Pickboy 100, black with the sort of suckers you see on calamari on the gripping surface. For reasons unknown, it works very well with the Pettine Special mandolin, but I don't care for it on any other.

Some excellent musicians do not concur with my habit of trying to match pick with instrument: they have a one pick fits all mentality, and they play and sound better than I ever will. But I love variation and ambiguity, so I have too many mandolins, and too many picks. Just lucky, I guess.

[Jim Garber]

I find that the best pick for me at the moment for classical repertoire is John Pearse jazz pick heavy. It has the right point to it.

On the other hand when I try it on fiddle tunes the point gets in the way. Then I use a small black Gibson pick.

I am afraid of using one favorite tortoise one because I will prob lose it.

Jim

[Eugene]

Bob-like, I tend to favor different picks for different instruments, but I am far more general. #I like the heavy Pearse jazz picks for archtop mandolins a la Gibson. #For bowlbacks and old flat, canted-top mandolins I shape Clayton's 0.8 mm Ultem Gold large triangles into a traditional Neapolitan shape (long like the Pettine picks, but a bit wider). #For archtop guitars, I like 1.00 mm Metacarbonate by Pickboy in the typical guitar pick shape; Pickboy stuff is a bit sharper and a lot harder than other plastics or celluloid.

[vkioulaphides]

Plamen, I will think of your post with a smile on my face by Friday lunch— in Athens.

Yes, Wolle picks are olive-shaped; of course, so are Pettine-type ones, only longer and pointier. Contrary to Bob, I am most comfortable, even in tremolo, with longish picks; what makes me UNcomfortable is feeling my hand hovering a bit too close above the strings, as caused by a pick with a shorter point.

But I must say that, up until last Thursday, I had absolutely no hands-on opinion (good or bad) of Wolle picks, as I had never tried one to date. So this thread is one of discovery, not of pros and cons; I know too little for that.

I'd go along with Bob and Eugene: pick-to-(type of) strings-to-mandolin. Seems to make sense...

It's just that, for reasons too blurred to explain, I have always, ALWAYS played with super-super-rigid picks, akin to the old Washburn heavies (rigid but glossy), or, to take the hard-and-glossy to the max, ivory (by bratsche).

To define and refine my comment: Wolle picks are rubbery but so thick that they don't have excessive flexibility— the one quality that I really cannot live with! So, beyond that, all is negotiable, all is worth experimenting with.

I have never tried a Pearse or any of the others that have been mentioned here; as I candidly admit, I am woefully ignorant. I would try any pick that at least doesn't slap the strings wildly (as softies do).

[Plamen Ivanov]

Of course, I agree with both of you - Victor and Eugene. I personally do not use the German rubber picks, but I like them. And I remember the negative reaction to them on the board two years ago. Of course, it always depends on the instrument, on the strings, etc. Of course, everyone has his own right to choose the pick, depending on the concrete mandolin, concrete piece or even player`s mood.
Have a nice trip to Athens, Victor, and bon appetite!

[Jim Garber]

Of course, everyone has his own right to choose the pick, depending on the concrete mandolin, concrete piece or even player`s mood.

Plami:
I never heard of a concrete mandolin. The vision of it is startling tho. I have heard of boats made of concrete.

Perhaps the word is different in translation?

Jim