Tube Amp

[journeybear]

Yeah, sure seems that way. I wish I had played the snot out of it when I first got it so that the problem would have shown up while it was still in the return period. Hoping for a better behaving one this time, and I am definitely going to put it through its paces. The seller says it was used only in a recording studio and not very much. If this one works well, fine; if not, gonna have to find something else. I appreciate all the advice and info, and will try to put as much of that into action as I can. Very limited resources here.

[generankin]

I am contemplating stepping out of the cold to play blues on my Phoenix Deluxe (which arrived with a McIntryre Feather pickup). I have a Bad Cat Hot Cat 30 guitar amp, through which the Phoenix sounded a little thin, so I acquired a used LR Baggs Para DI, which solved the 'thinness' right away. Onliest problem is that the amp weighs 83#, which is far too much to drag around (besides, it gets very loud), though it has gorgeous tone - and is nearly impossible to cause it to make ugly sounds.

So I have been looking at a 5 watt amp, a Bad Cat Mini II, which weighs a mere 34#. Both have 12" speakers, both use 12AX7 tubes in the preamp stage (the bigger amp has more than one). The bigger amp uses 2 EL34 power tubes, the smaller one a single EL84. Both are beautifully built (all point-to-point wiring, no pc boards).

Generally speaking, my limited experience says that tube amps sound a whole lot louder than one'd expect, but not being able to actually try the smaller amp out, I throw this question to you folks: any thoughts about its suitability for making the mando sufficiently audible with the usual suspects one finds at a blues jam?

[Verne Andru]

I am contemplating stepping out of the cold to play blues on my Phoenix Deluxe (which arrived with a McIntryre Feather pickup). I have a Bad Cat Hot Cat 30 guitar amp, through which the Phoenix sounded a little thin, so I acquired a used LR Baggs Para DI, which solved the 'thinness' right away. Onliest problem is that the amp weighs 83#, which is far too much to drag around (besides, it gets very loud), though it has gorgeous tone - and is nearly impossible to cause it to make ugly sounds.

So I have been looking at a 5 watt amp, a Bad Cat Mini II, which weighs a mere 34#. Both have 12" speakers, both use 12AX7 tubes in the preamp stage (the bigger amp has more than one). The bigger amp uses 2 EL34 power tubes, the smaller one a single EL84. Both are beautifully built (all point-to-point wiring, no pc boards).

Generally speaking, my limited experience says that tube amps sound a whole lot louder than one'd expect, but not being able to actually try the smaller amp out, I throw this question to you folks: any thoughts about its suitability for making the mando sufficiently audible with the usual suspects one finds at a blues jam?

It really all depends on the sound you're going for. Tubes distort - it's a fact of life. Usually in the last 25% of their range. It drove Leo Fender crazy trying to design tube amp that didn't distort. That's why his later amps have to be turned to ridiculous volumes before you hit the sweet spot.

So, assuming you want a distorted tone, smaller tube amps will help you achieve that better than their more powerful brethren. Why? Because to hear them over an ensemble they need to be cranked up, which usually means you are in the last 25% of the tubes range.

If you're looking for a clean, acoustic tone I'd suggest going solid state. Tube amps, like your Bad Cat, will work because they have so much power you are not turning them up into their distortion zone, but you've already noted the drawbacks.

If you are sold on a small tube amp, VHT makes a pretty nice line. I love small tube amps, but they are not for everything.

[Ed Goist]

I am contemplating stepping out of the cold to play blues on my Phoenix Deluxe (which arrived with a McIntryre Feather pickup). ...snip... So I have been looking at a 5 watt amp, a Bad Cat Mini II, which weighs a mere 34#. Both have 12" speakers, both use 12AX7 tubes in the preamp stage (the bigger amp has more than one). The bigger amp uses 2 EL34 power tubes, the smaller one a single EL84. Both are beautifully built (all point-to-point wiring, no pc boards).

Generally speaking, my limited experience says that tube amps sound a whole lot louder than one'd expect, but not being able to actually try the smaller amp out, I throw this question to you folks: any thoughts about its suitability for making the mando sufficiently audible with the usual suspects one finds at a blues jam?

Hard to imagine that anything wouldn't sound great through this. At 5W you will likely not have as much headroom, but the actual volume loss will be surprisingly low. If you usually play the 30 at volume settings under 60 -70%, you'll be fine. The one caveat would be if you need super loud and crystal clear cleans. Since EL-84 output tubes are fairly small, they tend to start breaking-up fairly soon in the volume cycle (a characteristic often sought after). Since you'll be playing Blues, I'm guessing you might actually prefer the "warm dirt" of the 5W amp played at the required volume.

Plus, if you find you're just not getting enough oomph, it appears the speaker on this amp is connected through a Speaker out, and there is an adjustable impedance.



So...If you find you don't have enough volume, you could connect this to a 4X12" cabinet and take the paint off the walls...Or just mic it. Rock on!

[Polecat]

I've never played either the Bad Cat nor one of the VHT amps, but if I had the 1000-odd dollars to spend that the Bad Cat costs, I would probably spend 250 of it on a VHT Special 6 Combo and the remainder on getting it modified to sound like an electric mandolin amplifier rather than the guitar amp it (and the Bad Cat) is designed to be. A lot of people here make the comment that an emando, especially when distorted, basically sounds like a very high-pitched electric guitar. This is not surprising seeing that most emandos are played through equipment that is specifically designed to sound good when you play a guitar through them, not a mandolin. There is very little demand, and therefore no supply of amps specifically for electric mandolins. My suggestion would be first to look for a tech in your area who would be willing to take on such a project, explain to him what it is that you want, and discuss it with him. VHT describe their wiring on their website as being on a "Mod-Friendly Eyelet-Type Board", which will warm the heart of anyone who wants to monkey with the circuitry. And its well worth playing around with the values of the coupling caps, the components in the tone control and so on, it makes a huge tonal difference. When I play electric, I use a tube amp that I built from scratch using a standard guitar amp circuit which I then modified by trial and error to get what I regard as a good mandolin tone (I had never built an amp before, or since, but its hardly rocket science) - that was back in the 90's, when low wattage guitar amps weren't available like they are these days. If I were wanting to do the same thing today, I would buy something like the VHT special 6 (or special 6 ultra - it has two preamp tubes), draw myself a schematic and fiddle around with it.


Edit and caveat: I am not recommending you to buy a tube amp and modify it yourself unless you are familiar with the basic safety procedures for working on valve circuits. They operate at high DC voltages that can be lethal if you are careless or even just unaware of the danger.

[jefg]

A small tube will be great. Blues Jr., Pro, etc. are durable versatile choices. Older, smaller, Valco, Silvertone, Magnatone, even better if you're going to mic it. Folks recommending Solid State don't understand what you're going for here.

[Ed Goist]

Is anyone aware of a production combo tube amp with the following specs/features?:
* +/- 20W
* 12AX7 into EL84 tubes
* One channel
* Master, volume, 3-band EQ
* Spring reverb
* One 15" speaker
* REASONABLY portable for someone 50+ years old and with bad knees.

I'd love to have a smallish, light, EL84 driven amp with a 15" speaker.
I recently heard a Peavey Delta Blues with a 15" driver and it was "Love at First Tone". I thought it blew away the Classic 30 with same circuit and a 12" speaker, but the Peavey Delta Blues weighs a ton, and it has a second channel (which I really don't need...I love my pedals!)
I'd also consider a head/cabinet combination to get there, but portability is key.
Thanks

[Marc Woodward]

Anyone tried a Vox AGA150?
This is purportedly a specialist valve/tube amp for acoustic instruments. 150 watts but still very portable. The idea being to have a clean but slightly warmer/mellower sound... No distort/overdrive but reverb and chorus. Two channels one valve one normal transistor...
I wonder how a mic sounds through the valve channel? I normally play into a condenser mic and run it to the pa but like the idea of something on stage (or for little gigs where pa would be overkill).

Cheers,

Marc

[Verne Andru]

Isn't portable and 15" speaker an oxymoron?

15's tend to be for bass and there are not many guitar amps using that speaker config IIRC. Peavey Delta Blues comes to mind, but you already know about that one. I believe they Victoria amps has a guitar amp with a 15, but they are more a high-end boutique builder and cost may be an issue.

If you're up to doing a custom job, Crate makes a couple amps - the VC20 and V16 - that have the amp circuit you want but in a 12" package. They can be had for around $200. Find a cabinet builder who can give you a box the size you need then shop for a 15 with the voice you want. Going with a custom cabinet will give you the opportunity to get something in a plywood build, which is much lighter than the MDF that Peavey and others use in mass-produced amps. And, of course, the speaker you choose will make a ton of difference as well. Not sure it'll be anywhere near as portable as you'd like, but have a it.

I've gone the other way - I rely on small 3 to 5 watt tube amps and DI them into the PA. Uber portable, tons of tone and volume is the front-of-house problem.

[almeriastrings]

15" speakers are not my idea of portable, either.

The Vox is essentially a very clean solid state output stage, with one channel having a 'tube' pre. However.... it is not a true tube amp by any stretch. More like one of those cheap mic 'tube' pres run from a wall wart for that channel.

If you are playing Tele in a loud country band, yes, you need plenty of clean tube power (roll out the Twin Reverb), but for most things where you are just looking for tube saturation 'flavor' a much, much lower powered unit is the way to go. 5 watts is often plenty. You can get 'hot rodded' versions of cheap tube amps that work well, like the Epiphone Valve Junior. There is a guy in the UK who does a lot of this. Some good ideas on his website:

http://www.ratvalveamps.com

[Ed Goist]

Played one of the Fender 'Pawn Shop' series Excelsior amps (13W, 1X15, 2X12AX7 into 2X6V6, just 33#) at my local GC today...Very fun and interesting, but it had dirt even at very low volume, and no reverb (though the tremolo was really fun). Also, I found the lack of having both a Master & a Volume control to be a real deficiency. It also has just one tone control.

Amazingly, I've found someone locally who is interested in trading a Fender Blues Jr. with a 12" Celestion G12M Greenback speaker for my Hughes & Kettner Tube Edition. The Blues Jr. has the one channel, the tube configuration I'm looking for, ample watts (15), the control configuration I'm looking for, and I'm hoping the Greenback will provide the driver character I'm looking for. Maybe most importantly it weighs-in at 31# (10 pounds or 24% less the the H&K).

We'll see how it works out...."Oh Tone, you are such an elusive Vixen!"

Thanks for all the comments.

[almeriastrings]

The H&K's are a great amp. Really well made and sound superb. Built like a tank...which is - as you have discovered - also something of a downside, too. The Blues Jr. is also a fine amp. Can't go wrong with either - just comes down to trade offs in weight - power - tone - channels , etc.

[Ed Goist]

The H&K's are a great amp. Really well made and sound superb. Built like a tank...which is - as you have discovered - also something of a downside, too. The Blues Jr. is also a fine amp. Can't go wrong with either - just comes down to trade offs in weight - power - tone - channels , etc.

It's funny how priorities can change...
Up till about a year ago I did 95+% of my playing at home, and "gear portability" wasn't even on my radar. Now, because 50+% of my playing is done outside of the home, "gear portability" is right near the top of my priorities list, right after tone and dependability.