Why do we get such odd responses to ads?

[Greenmando]

I have wondered about this for years. I will place a ad give a price say $1000 or OBO. I think we all know that OBO is or best offer. Someone will visit and ask "what is your cheapest price?" What part of "offer" did they miss. Not once have any of these people actually made the sale. Now days with internet sales I still get the "what is your cheapest price?" in email responses. I tell them politely I have made the ad with a price I want, if you chose to you are welcome to make a offer.

As any savvy person who wants to make a sale I research and see the going price on a object. I have been selling Mandolins for a couple decades and know the value anyway. But there is always someone trying to tell me the running price on a Gibson model to be $500 when in fact a used one in that model in good condition is worth $2000, and new retail to be $5000.

I understand we all want a deal, I use every advantage I can when purchasing. But I never make insulting offers. If I see something I like and the price is near what I want I may make a offer, sometimes the price is good enough I just pay it. But if the price is far too much I pass on even talking to them.

Odd as well where they respond with questions already addressed. Ask the year, and the year is stated in title and description. State up front not interested in trades and they will keep pushing a trade. I had one person who kept wanting me to throw in some cash to trade their Kentucky toward my Flatiron Performer F5.

Why do we get odd responses to ads?

[mrmando]

Tom, are you talking about Cafe ads, or Craigslist?

Most replies I get to Cafe ads are from reasonably sane people. Ads I place elsewhere (CL in particular) seem to attract some cranky people.

I had a slightly used Eastwood Mandocaster. I made a kit out of it by adding a gig bag, strap, cable, and extra set of strings. I listed it on CL ... IIRC I asked $300, maybe $325. Somebody went ballistic over that, because new ones were listed at Elderly and elsewhere for $299. Never mind that (a) shipping on a new one would be around $50; (b) the new one would lack a case, gig bag, or any other goodies; (c) none of the online dealers actually had any new Mandocasters in stock at that time -- they were completely sold out. One guy made a point of waiting months until another crop of new Mandocasters came in, just so he could pay $349 for a new one with no accessories rather than $325 for a used one with accessories and then try to rub my nose in it.

I had a 1913 Gibson K2 mandocello ... playable, great tone, but less-than-pristine condition with some not-beautiful repair work. I listed it for $2200, well below book value for a K2 ... but the first person to respond on CL opined that I ought to knock it down another $600 because of the condition. (Dude, it had already been knocked down because of the condition.) The second person bought it for the asking price. All the way from France.

I was selling a Bulldog A for $900 and a guy wanted to make a trade involving a Morgan Monroe White Lightning and cash. But he wanted the cash to come his way, because after all, a Morgan Monroe White Lightning is a highly prized limited-edition collector's item worth scads. Wait, that one might have been a Cafe ad ... I don't remember.

If people really knew where to get a Gibson for $500, do you think they'd even bother to talk to someone selling that Gibson for $2K?

As for the "cheapest price" inquiry, sometimes I do leave myself a little room to negotiate on price ... but people who ask for my "cheapest price" are expecting me to voluntarily weaken my position in that negotiation before they've so much as demonstrated good faith. If I start with a number, I've already shown one of my cards; the buyer should show one of his or hers by making an offer. I often do shave off a Benjamin (or at least a Ulysses) or eat the shipping for buyers who know how to negotiate.

[Greenmando]

Most of the odd responses have been off our classifieds here.

I have had buyers tell me how I was not to cash their check till they told me to. I told them I would not ship till the check cleared and they do not understand.

Oddly I get decent results off craigs.
I sold a Gibson F9 on craigslist for $2700. I stated how it was un-used and well stored. Buyer came to the house sat down and played it a hour and counted out the cash without a blink. He had done his research, knew the new price and used price. He said he knew he was basically getting a new mando for a deal. That was a F9 I bought from guitar center on our gold rush month here in the café.

[Francis J]

You have my sympathy greenmando. However, placing an advert with an asking price OBO is an invitation to tender. Maybe some folks push the limits a bit with silly offers, but an offer is never insulting no matter how low, its just a bad offer! Haggling for a good deal is probably a cultural thing which is natural behaviour to some, and annoying to most. I suppose the most iritating bit is that you won't get a logical answer to your question, because I doubt there is one. Maybe use of the term OBO could be substituted with ONO (or near offer). I think you will still have to deal with dummies though!

[Lou Giordano]

That question of "what's the least you'll take for it" always bothered me. I think, well step up and make an offer. So my standard response to that question is well, what's the most you'll pay for it. The ones that ask that question never buy anyway, they just offer you quite a bit less than what you tell them even if you do answer them. Like on the show Pawn stars "well what are you looking to get out of it", then offer them 1/2 or less.

[jaycat]

FYI, this can work both ways. I've often asked straightforward questions of sellers who routinely ignore them.

[TNT]

I am guilty of the "what is your best price on it?" The only reason I do that is 1)I have cash in hand and want to get a deal done, 2) I don't want to banter back and forth 3-4 emails over $50 either way 3) I would rather get a email saying "that is my best price " then insulting the seller.. With the OBO It says to the buyer that the seller isn't firm on his price and probably left a little room to move, otherwise the would have wrote $9800 FIRM.. I do apologize if I have ever upset anyone..

[mrmando]

Francis J, TNT: "OBO" means make an offer. Don't expect the seller to make it for you. If you "have cash in hand and want to get a deal done," then you know what you are willing to pay, so why not let the seller in on the secret instead of making him or her guess?

Sometimes the question is phrased as "What's your best price?" To which the correct response is: "My best price would be ten million dollars, but since you probably don't have that much, I decided to ask $2500."

Weirdest Craigslist response thus far: I listed 5 or 6 instruments in one ad. In a CL headline you can list only a single price, not a range of prices. So I typed the price for the cheapest instrument ($200) and then listed the individual prices in the body of the ad. A guy called and wanted to give me $200 for all the instruments.

[TNT]

If the best price was $2500 then the seller wouldn't have put OBO

[Jeff Budz]

Some people seem to think their used gear is worth way too much, like the mandocaster guy who wants $325 for something that is $350 new. Throwing in a few accessories is irrelevant, why even bother throwing them in? Because they have no value / need to you any more. F

I think that something used should be no more than 2/3 new price. Of course this does not apply to vintage gear.

I don't like haggling, and putting OBO is an invitation. Perhaps you would have better results if you set your price right and say it's "firm."

[mrmando]

Some people seem to think their used gear is worth way too much, like the mandocaster guy who wants $325 for something that is $350 new. Throwing in a few accessories is irrelevant, why even bother throwing them in? Because they have no value / need to you any more.

Just because I don't need them doesn't mean they have no value. Supply and demand are also a factor: the $350 new price was essentially meaningless because there were no new ones to be had at the time. I think I may have eventually reduced the price on that one to $300, or traded it for something. I did all right on it.

If you think the price is too high, you certainly have the right not to respond to the ad.

[mrmando]

If the best price was $2500 then the seller wouldn't have put OBO

Asking for "best price" does not equal making an offer. If I solicit offers, I want offers. If I wanted people to ask me the price, I wouldn't put it in the ad.

[Lou Giordano]

People say " I hate to haggle , Just drop your pants... I mean price".

[mandograss]

If you think the price is too high, you certainly have the right not to respond to the ad.

I bet you are a big Lee Marvin fan.

[Ed Goist]

"Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" - George Carlin
"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell

[Larry S Sherman]

I bet you are a big Lee Marvin fan.

"Yeah me too. I love that guy. My heart's beatin' so fast I'm about to have a heart attack."

Reservoir Mandos

[mandopete]

I guess that's why they call it a "transaction". Sometimes people just don't know how to say what they mean. It's no big deal. I would just tell them what you're willing to do from a price perspective and move on.

[allenhopkins]

Gee, is it too hot in here? Maybe we should leave the kitchen...

Putting out an advertisement to sell something, is accepting the possibility that you'll get uninformed, unscrupulous, annoying, non-serious responses. That's the chance you take. You can't screen potential "buyers" for sanity, good intentions, knowledge of current market prices, etc. I think, in this internet age, that many purchasers take the trouble to inform themselves regarding what prices are currently being asked for certain instrument models. But dealing with small-volume individualized transactions, like buying and selling instruments (unless you're Musician's Friend or some such), means that looking up "what used F-4's are selling for" is less useful. There are major variances in condition, vintage, etc. that create a large range of asking price.

If people who sell maybe a dozen instruments per year get frustrated, think about the person who deals every day from his store, and has to maintain an inventory of everything from high-end instruments, to picks and strings and lesson books, and all the other paraphernalia. Of course, few people expect to haggle over a set of D'Addarios, and the fact that there's a price tag hanging on that Eastman 505 sort of makes the price more "official" than if it were listed by a private seller on Craigslist.

Problem with private sales is that presumably the seller paid "retail" for the instrument, so needs to get a price within shouting distance of that figure, for a used mandolin whose price is, basically, set individually by its owner, and thus theoretically negotiable. The example of Martin's Mandocaster is a good one. He was offering a good deal, but many people just don't see why they should pay approximately the cost of a new instrument, for a used one, even if a bag etc. is thrown into the mix. If I go used-car shopping, as I did, and pick up a six-month-old Honda with only 6K on the odometer, I still expect to pay substantially less than I would for a new one. As I did.

I buy quite a bit, and never sell (though I do trade), and consider myself informed. I wouldn't feel embarrassed trying to ascertain what the seller's "bottom line" was, although I recognize a fair price when I see one. How many times have I heard dealers say, "Well, I've got $X into this one, so I'll need to get $X+Y out of it," and that doesn't bother me. That's how it works, and dealing with honest people, you get to a fair price.

[MikeEdgerton]

Call me crazy, I see nothing wrong with asking someone their best price. I give a guy that has room to move one chance to get me to buy. You want my money as bad as I want your product. Deal with it. Not everyone lives in your world. You need to venture into their world as well. The other choice is to go sell where you're comfortable. Sellers have the same choice as buyers. It really is a two way street and there really aren't rules of ettiquette in play here.

[Bob Borzelleri]

"What is your cheapest (best, lowest) price" is often the prelude to the second email that suggests that the "buyer" wants the item and will have a shipping company or agent pick it up after they send you a phony money order.

Still, for inquiries that are not from Nigeria, I have no problem fielding real questions from real people asking what my bottom line is. If I have a price that I want to respond with, I will, and if I don't, I simply say so. there are no fixed rules for buying/selling stuff on the Internet except for honestly describing what you are offering and paying the agreed price with real money. All other expectations are unrealistic, in my view.

[Ed Goist]

Mike, I agree with you. However, as with so much communication, it's all in the presentation. I doubt anyone would be upset about receiving an offer under their 'firm' asking price if the offer was worded thusly:

Dear X:
I am very interested in the mandolin you currently have listed in the Cafe Classifieds. (Thank you for the detailed ad. It is very helpful when an ad is detailed and includes so much information).
I understand that your firm price is $Y dollars.
For your consideration, I am willing to offer you $Z dollars for the mandolin.
I understand that this is less than your firm price, but please consider my offer should your selling circumstances change.
Thanks you very much for your consideration of my offer, and best of luck selling your mandolin!
Sincerely;
Serial Mandolin Buyer

[Scott Tichenor]

"What is your cheapest (best, lowest) price" is often the prelude to the second email that suggests that the "buyer" wants the item and will have a shipping company or agent pick it up after they send you a phony money order.

Still, for inquiries that are not from Nigeria, I have no problem fielding real questions from real people asking what my bottom line is. If I have a price that I want to respond with, I will, and if I don't, I simply say so. there are no fixed rules for buying/selling stuff on the Internet except for honestly describing what you are offering and paying the agreed price with real money. All other expectations are unrealistic, in my view.

Those kind of inquiries have not occurred on this site for a very, very long time. We have a secure method of filtering those so that they are never seen. If you are meaning to say they are occurring, please say as much and back it up with some proof sent personally to my inbox. I believe your statement does not apply to this site but one wouldn't know it from the words you've used.

In regard to the OP, when I see OBO I read that as "here's the amount I want but of course I'll take less." In addition, painting everyone's selling and buying experience here with a broad brush is simply inaccurate.

[MikeEdgerton]

...an offer under their 'firm' asking price ...

I don't think anyone is talking about firm prices. When I see firm I personally respect that and don't make offers. In the past however I've been advised by many cafe members that they always ask no matter what. I just don't. I agree with Scott's assessment of the OBO and see no problem asking where the bottom is. If someone wants to attach certain conditions to their selling then it might be best to state that up front.

[RichM]

As someone who has both bought and sold frequently on this site, I'm of the firm belief that when you endeavor to sell here, you become a merchant, and as such, you need to behave like one. That means accepting that some of your potential customers are looky-loos, lowballers, will ask for endless photos, etc. It's all part of the process; this may not be your business, but you made the choice to be a seller and you owe your potential customers respect. I've found that some people who are pretty bad at negotatiating are nonetheless still really interested in buying, and having a polite conversation with them often leads to a sale that is satisfying to both parties. Sure, some of those conversations will end up being a waste of time; just think about the last time you sat in a music store trying a dozen instruments and didn't buy anything. If you expect to sell, you have to expect a certain amount of browsing.

The Cafe is not only the best music marketplace I've ever been involved in, it may be the best marketplace I've ever been involved with, period. I'm a serial buyer, so I hope you guys never stop selling; and since my buying habits force me to sell a few off every now and then, I hope you never stop buying, either!

[GDAE]

If you don't want people to ask your best price, perhaps just say that in the ad, since everyone interprets these things differently. Just say something like "Don't ask my best price, just make an offer." It might not weed out everyone, but possibly a few.