Tailpiece angle adjustment

[Knucklehead]

I read prior to installing a James tailpiece that the angle of the housing should be adjusted parallel with the string break angle. Is this same adjustment of any benefit to The Gibson tailpieces on the MMs; should they be adjusted in a similar manner? I know that the mandolin with the James tailpiece seems to have a longer sustain. Thanks for any advice.

[sunburst]

Standard Gibson style tailpieces cannot be adjusted. They are not stiff enough to resist the straightening effect of string pull, so they align with the strings regardless of how they are bent to start with.

[Skip Kelley]

The adjustment is what helps the tailpiece to close correctly.

[Cathal Whelehan]

I'm just wondering if I'm correctly interpreting the OP's question and the replies that were given, as I'm considering having a James tailpiece fitted to a flat top mandolin that's being built for me. As the luthier works in the hills of Ireland and doesn't have any personal experience of James tailpieces, I've offered to find out if it's suitable and to supply him with one for fitting if it is.

Based on the above, am I therefore correct in thinking that the angle of the James tailpiece can in fact be adjusted to suit the more shallow break angle of the strings? If so, is this merely a matter of manually bending the mounting plate to achieve the desired angle or are special tools required?

Many thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

[sunburst]

Yes, and yes.

[bernabe]

As Skip said, the adjustment of the tailpiece is to allow the top to close [stay closed]. Installation instructions state the plane of the uncovered tp should be level with the top of bridge or higher, not necessarily exactly with the break angle of the strings. i.e. if you have a low bridge and break angle, the tailpiece does not need to be adjusted to work properly. If you have a higher than normal bridge and the plane runs below the top of the bridge, you need to adjust it for the reason already stated -so that the strings are'nt pushing the underside of the tp cover upward. You should be good.

[Cathal Whelehan]

Thank you James for that description - that helped me visualise better where the crux of the matter lies and that - based on my assumption that the tailpiece angle will most likely lead over the top of the bridge with it being a flat top - that there probably (touch wood) won't be a problem in my case.

To be safe, I also mailed Bill James to ask if he could give me some specs that my luthier could check before I make an order and within a quarter of an hour of sending my e-mail I received a reply with a copy of his very clearly written mounting instructions (with very useful diagrams). He also asked me to have my luthier measure the exact height of the bridge and the distance from the bridge to the tailpiece end of the body so that he can give me a definitive answer on whether the adjustment I'd have to make would compromise the tailpiece in any way. What a great guy!

[bernabe]

He also asked me to have my luthier measure the exact height of the bridge and the distance from the bridge to the tailpiece end of the body so that he can give me a definitive answer on whether the adjustment I'd have to make would compromise the tailpiece in any way.

Also, if the bridge is considerebly lower to the TP angle, consider the compromise to the instrument as well If the strings are pushing downward on the tailpiece. It could put unwanted stress on the top in that same area. Good luck.

[Cheryl Watson]

The adjustment is what helps the tailpiece to close correctly.

Over time, I have found that the tension from the strings can pull it slightly too low and then the cover cannot close correctly. I seem to remember that, without the strings or with the strings very loosened, the tailpiece can be bent to a slightly higher degree by hand without taking the tailpiece off. As usual, I cannot find my instructions. So, Skip, do you know if this is true or should the tailpiece be removed first and then reinstalled after being bent?

[Skip Kelley]

Over time, I have found that the tension from the strings can pull it slightly too low and then the cover cannot close correctly. I seem to remember that, without the strings or with the strings very loosened, the tailpiece can be bent to a slightly higher degree by hand without taking the tailpiece off. As usual, I cannot find my instructions. So, Skip, do you know if this is true or should the tailpiece be removed first and then reinstalled after being bent?

Yes, they can move just enough to not close properly. I’ve seen a few that way. I would remove the tailpiece to prevent any kind of damage to the mandolin before bending it. It usually only takes a small amount to make a difference.

[siminoff]

Aside from the tailpiece not closing correctly if the angle is too low, cast or machined tailpieces (like Bill's) can impose a bending moment on the tailback and ribs in that area if they are set too high (to this end, Bill cuts a channel at the tail end of his tailpieces so they can be bent and properly aligned). The tailpiece should be mounted to the ribs and tailback and aligned to the top of the bridge saddle without presenting a bending moment to the butt of the instrument. The stamped The Gibson tailpieces are reasonably flexible and will conform to the string-break angle without levering or pulling unevenly at the tailblock and ribs. I've seen several instruments with cast tailpieces that were set too high, that either pulled the ribs and tailblock away from the backboard, or - in the case of an instrument I have here now - ruptured the soundboard immediately forward of the tailblock. Key here is to get the mounting part of the tailpiece to fit flush to the ribs, and in the case of a James tailpiece, the strings touching lightly on the "O" rings as they depart straight to the top of the bridge saddle. Bill's tailpieces are beautifully designed and machined.
R

[Steve Hinde]

I found over time the James will need to be bent back up from repeated closing of the cover. Also, too high and the strings can buzz on the leading edge of the bottom in front of the o rings. Too low and strings can buzz on the cover, besides not closing correctly. The angle needs to be set as Roger said. So the strings are just resting on the o rings. That is what deadens the string chimes between the bridge and tailpiece. I would not recommend trying to bend the tailpiece mounted. Too easy to damage the mandolin or the tailpiece. It is a great design and Bill is a great guy.