remembering fiddle tunes

[Bertram Henze]

My problem is mixing up the A and B of similar tunes so I'll start playing the A of one and the B of the correct one the first time out, then switching the B or going back to the A of another (similar) tune. Anybody can help me keep them straight will earn my undying gratitude.

I avoid similarities by rendering the tunes intentionally as different as possible, especially at the A-to-B or B-to-A junctions. Doublestops in one twin tune, a triplet here and there in the other, until they are no more sounding alike at all.

Now standing by for that gratitude...

[tree]

One exercise that helps me is to pick a key, pick a fiddle tune, and then string together as many fiddle tunes as I can think of in the same key (A has the most for my repertoire, D the next). I try to play them as a long medley, playing each one completely and at a reasonable tempo (not necessarily blistering). It forces me to think of how the next melody begins while I'm still finishing up the one I'm on.

It's just something I started doing as a "reward" period in my practice time (I love me some fiddle tunes). I've been doing it for 2 or 3 years now, and while it has gotten a little easier (I used to have to stop playing before I could think of the next melody), it's still not something that I'm very good at. The times that I can go 5 or 6 deep without missing a beat between tunes, it sure is fun.

I suspect I got the idea from the David Bromberg Band, their fiddle tune medleys were almost always my favorite tracks on their albums.

[billkilpatrick]

ok - let's put this to the test:

mike compton offered up this maddening little ditty recently and it's been laying there like a glove in the sand ever since:

http://slippery-hill.com/c/Charleston1.mp3

the A part is do-able but the B - and the B(a) part in particular - simply do not compute

[JonZ]

For me, it is usually a matter of associating the name of the song with the first few measures. Once I can associate those measures with the name of the song, I am good to go.

Flash cards with the song name on the front and the beginning of the song on the back would be a simple way to address this.

[Jim DeSalvio]

I try to group them by the key, and if I can remember the first few notes, then it all falls into place. The more tunes you learn, however, the harder this may become.

[fatt-dad]

ok - let's put this to the test:

mike compton offered up this maddening little ditty recently and it's been laying there like a glove in the sand ever since:

http://slippery-hill.com/c/Charleston1.mp3

the A part is do-able but the B - and the B(a) part in particular - simply do not compute

It's like the form of this tune is AABCC, which is different. Nice ditty though!

f-d

[JonZ]

Creating your own lyrics for the first few measures to go along with the tune is a mnemonic trick that you can use to help make title/tune connections. The more visual and outlandish the better: "The Kitchen Girl is cookin' some kittens in the crock pot..." Picture it in your mind as you sing it to the tune.

You will remember the tune so well that you will wish you could get the image out of your head!

[Randi Gormley]

Gratitude extended, Bertram. I'll try that tonight when we try Red Haired Lass and Craig's Pipes!

[Bertram Henze]

Red Haired Lass and Craig's Pipes

Yes, nice confusion potential there. I used to play Morning Star / Craig's Pipes in a set (both starting with a full G triple stop) and had severe issues changing into Craig's Pipes at all, playing Morning Star again and again and again... Solved the issue by regrouping the sets. Now I play Tripping Down the Stairs after Morning Star and Miss McLeod's before Craig's Pipes.

[Randi Gormley]

We avoided the issue last night, although we did attempt Congress Reel and Star of Munster, where the B parts invariably get switched. I'll suggest Miss McLeod's and Craig's Pipes next time we meet -- we had been playing St. Anne's Reel/Silver Spear/Miss McLeod's and Mountain Road/Craig's Pipes/Tulla but sometimes you want a fresh start. thanks!

[JeffD]

I try to group them by the key, and if I can remember the first few notes, then it all falls into place. The more tunes you learn, however, the harder this may become.

I should do this, as the OT jams play by key.

[Denny Gies]

For me it is repetition, repetion and more of the same. Then the tune is in my head and once I get into my fingers it usually stays there with some ocassional revisiting. Hope this makes some sense.

[woodwizard]

Me & my OT pickin' buddies start a tune called Betty Liken and after awhile it always morfs into the Kitchen Girl. Sort of a standard way we always play it.

[JonZ]

I avoid similarities by rendering the tunes intentionally as different as possible, especially at the A-to-B or B-to-A junctions. Double stops in one twin tune, a triplet here and there in the other, until they are no more sounding alike at all.

Now standing by for that gratitude...

I agree with Bertram. Not only will it make the songs easier for you to remember, it will make for a more interesting performance.

[Avi Ziv]

Musicianship is in the BRAIN, not (just) in the fingers. Humming/singing tunes doesn't do anything specifically for the muscles in your fingers, but it does a whole lot of stuff inside the BRAIN which ultimate tells the fingers where to go. Muscle memory pickers are victims of self-inflicted "Lazy Ear".

Niles H

I strongly agree with this statement. For me it's pretty simple. If I can't sing (vocalize, lilt, whatever you want to call it) the tune, then I don't know the tune. It's a strong prerequisite for me. The cases where I read music off the sheet and transferred it to the instrument without my inner ear's involvement always felt not only overly mechanical, but I felt like I was robbing myself of something, I was getting by with less than what could be a more complete understanding and ultimately more freedom while playing.

The whistling vs singing is interesting to me. I suppose both would work but I rely more on vocalizing it for committing to memory. In my specific case I can trace it back to early days of playing sax. With wind instruments there is an added benefit which not everyone understands. If you learn how to sing the tune, then later when you actually play it on the wind instrument, your throat will pre-shape itself in anticipation of the coming pitch and that is very very helpful for good tone production - delivering a column of air that is already vibrating at the right freq. But I digress. This has nothing to do with mandolin other than my preference today to singing tunes when learning them.

I learn most Irish traditional tunes (which is what I mostly play) by ear even though I can read music fine. I learn usually while driving, listening to recordings over and over until I can sing the tunes by myself. Once that transition has happened I become the reference and I can find the notes pretty easily on the instrument.

I also learn some tunes in "real time" at the sessions but I'm not yet good enough the learn an entire tune at the first playing unless it's dead simple. But I can often find the key differentiating phrases and then later on back-fill connecting notes on subsequent playing of the tune.

The ability to remember tunes is an acquired one and develops with practice. There are no great shortcuts. The more you do it, the easier it gets. Kind of like climbing hills on a bicycle. I'm still working on both skills

[John Flynn]

I've never done the whistling or the lyrics thing. I will sometimes try to sing a tune in nonsense syllables to learn it, but not to remember it.

I've found that a tune I learn by ear I will remember longer than one I learn from notation, tab or instruction. Also, a tune I have ever rehearsed and performed I will remember longer than a tune I have just played a lot, like at jams or whatever. YMMV.

[JeffD]

Its funny, but I can't see it being any easier to remember lyrics. I am particuarly impressed when someone can sing an entire Child ballad.


There were three sisters lived in a hall
Och aye and a lily gay
There came a knight and he wooed them all
Oh the rose is aye the redder aye

Then the first one she was dressed in green
Och aye and a lily gay
Would you fancy me and be my queen
Oh the rose is aye the redder aye

...6,871,638,558,687,485,332 stanzas later and its only Thursday afternoon and the knight hasn't yet gotten to the third sister.

[Bertram Henze]

Its funny, but I can't see it being any easier to remember lyrics. I am particuarly impressed when someone can sing an entire Child ballad.

This ballad shows an essential element of old Celtic communication tradition. Since almost nothing got written down and there was no radio, the bards' memories were virtually the only storage area for information (let alone backup devices!) and the bards' voices the only broadcast media. To do this job, you had to be able to memorize it all and, yes, it apparently was not for everyone.
The recurring 2nd and 4th lines are really time slots for the singer to remember the next line of content (i.e. cache buffering), the rhymes are really criteria to narrow the search (i.e. database indexes).

We are talking about people here who were able to recite their own genealogical family tree 50 generations backwards. Such a song must have been peanuts for them.

Many of these mechanisms also apply for ITM tunes. Looks like memory access is what makes a Celtic person.

Now back to memorizing the 3950 ITM tunes I can't play - yet

[JeffD]

There is a book, I forget the name, about a life in traditional Irish music. (Someone will know the book and mention it. It's been mentioned before on the cafe.) Anyway, the author makes this very point - the relation between remembering fiddle tunes and remembering oral history in the days before things got written down.

[JonZ]

For those interested in memorization technique in general, Moonwalking with Einstein: The Art and Science of Remembering Everything might be an interesting read.

[Bertram Henze]

There is a book, I forget the name...

[mritter]

My problem is remembering which fiddle tune is which...once I start a tune I can play it, but I can't associate the tunes with the titles. "Let's play xxxx!" "Can you hum a few bars first?'

Me too.

[JeffD]

Yea, well.....

[JeffD]

Found it

Last Night's Fun, by Ciaran Carson

[Avi Ziv]

Found it

Last Night's Fun, by Ciaran Carson

My favourite book on Irish traditional music by far