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Thread: remembering fiddle tunes

  1. #1

    Default remembering fiddle tunes

    there's a better chance of me remembering a tune if it has lyrics - with few exceptions, instrumental fiddle tunes tend to sound the same.

    how do you do it? - help and advise gratefully received - bill

  2. #2
    Registered User Cathal Whelehan's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    I usually catch myself whistling along with tunes while they're playing and - more often than not - still whistling them long after they've stopped; not exactly sure if that's the sort of suggestion you had in mind, but it certainly seems to help me to find my way around the notes when transferring the whistled tune to the strings.
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    Registered User TonyEarth's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    Well, through a lot of practice and just general memorization, singing em over in your head, and gradually playing with less of the sheet music, that usually works for me. My problem is remembering mandolin tunes and chords.....
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    cathal/tony - gratz' ... whistling sounds like a good discipline - especially when some of the songs seem to be just a flurry of notes. i do practice the songs - a lot - especially in bad weather, like we've been having lately - but i'm annoyed to find that i sometimes can't remember the tune the following day - as if endless repetition of the previous session accounted for nothing.

    i was wondering if the memorizing of words and melody employ different functions of the brain.

  5. #5
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    I think its easier for me because I listen to a lot more instrumental music than I do songs. I would bet that less than 2% of my musical listening is vocal. OK maybe as much as 5%. And all of the music I play is instrumental.

    So my brain gets kind of wired that way. I can remember tunes easier than lyrics, and I sometimes find myself thinking or dreaming in melody. I have for a long time had dreams that were tunes and not scenes or talking people.

    So I guess listen and whistle and hummmm along and your brain will re-wire.

    To me (and that is just me) a tune is like an abstract painting, while a song is like a realistic picture of something. Here is a painting of a duck. There is no way to see anything else - when you look at it you see a duck. A single tune can be a far horizon, a coming a storm, a lover's whispers, a roller coaster coming to the top just before going over, or even a duck.

    I don't mean to offend any of you duck fans BTW.
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    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    I use the whistle method often - but only for those tunes with infectious melodies (e.g., Sadie in the Back Door - a contemporary tune). Sometimes I have to write down a good tune and then find the music, then it becomes an ear worm for a while (back to whistling).

    For some tunes, I really just memorize the first measure, then it comes back to me. I actually have quite a handfull of them. Dubuque is one of the tunes I play but can't start. It's frustrating!

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    Registered User SincereCorgi's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    For me, a lot of the time a fiddle tune will have some dimension that identifies it from all the rest- it can be a weird wrinkle in the chord progression or a weird string-crossing pattern or a chain of arpeggios that seem particularly cliched, etc. If I can remember that dimension and the title, I can usually work outward from it to 'reconstruct' the tune. A week or two I had totally forgotten the tune 'Magpie' but I knew it had a certain sort of D major arpeggio that turned into an upward scale... I remembered it, but it was like reconstructing a triceratops from a femur and part of an eye-socket. Having said that, some tunes, like Katy Hill (or is it Katy Did?) refuse to stick in my brain because they seem so homogenous.

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    Registered User Randi Gormley's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    Well, whistling, of course (or humming if you can't whistle) but having a recorder around doesn't hurt, or getting the name and then YouTubing it or finding an mp3. My problem is mixing up the A and B of similar tunes so I'll start playing the A of one and the B of the correct one the first time out, then switching the B or going back to the A of another (similar) tune. Anybody can help me keep them straight will earn my undying gratitude.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    My problem is remembering which fiddle tune is which...once I start a tune I can play it, but I can't associate the tunes with the titles. "Let's play xxxx!" "Can you hum a few bars first?'
    Last edited by GDAE; Mar-06-2011 at 6:03pm.

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    Pogue Mahone theCOOP's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    I agree with remembering which tune is which. I don't often whistle the tunes, but can almost literally hear them in my head plain as day.

    Most of the tunes I'm playing with are familiar to me anyway and have only JUST learned their names through learning to play.

    But...for the first day or two, or if I haven't played it in some time, I may not get going correctly right off the bat, but once I find my way with the tune, it's like riding a bike.

    Some I can learn real quick almost as if by ear, though others I can play over and over and still need the tab in front of me.
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    First I catagorize them into 3 types: American, Irish and jazz tunes. Then every time I learn a new tune I put it on an index card. Then when I practice repitore I pick a pack of cards that I want to play an go through them and next time I practice that style I pick up where I left off in the card pack. Now I have a slew of tunes I can play at any bluegrass irish or jazz/swing jam. Works for me!

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    Remembering the names of the tunes, well thats entirely different.
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    String-Bending Heretic mandocrucian's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    there's a better chance of me remembering a tune if it has lyrics - with few exceptions, instrumental fiddle tunes tend to sound the same.
    Define "remembering". Muscle "memory"? It's amazing the percentage of people that "play" that can play the tune on their instrument, but are completely unable to hum/vocalize the same tune. Says, to me, that the tune is NOT really in their head/ear.

    with few exceptions, instrumental fiddle tunes tend to sound the same.
    I don't buy that, even though there is a certain overlap/repetition of stock phrases/licks occuring. Once again, the question is: "Where is the memory of the tune lodged - the fingers or the ear?" Has the ear become to subservient (to the fingers) and/or lazy to hear/remember the tunes as individual entities?

    I'll bet that if you are familiar with the jazz tune "Twisted", lyrics put to a jazz instrument/solo by Jon Hendricks and recorded by Annie Ross on a Lambert, Hendricks & Ross album, and covered 20 years later by Joni Mitchell, you could probably hum at least the initial section of it.

    Twisted
    My analyst told me that I was right out of my head
    The way he described it, he said I'd be better dead than live
    I didn't listen to his jive
    I knew all along he was all wrong
    And I knew that he thought I was crazy but I'm not
    Oh no!

    My analyst told me that I was right out of my head
    He said I'd need treatment but I'm not that easily led
    He said I was the type that was most inclined
    When out of his sight to be out of my mind
    And he thought I was nuts, no more ifs or ands or buts
    Oh no!

    They say as a child I appeared a little bit wild
    With all my crazy ideas
    But I knew what was happenin', I knew I was a genius
    What's so strange when you know that you're a wizard at three?
    I knew that this was meant to be

    Well I heard little children were supposed to sleep tight
    That's why I drank a fifth of vodka one night
    My parents got frantic, didn't know what to do
    But I saw some crazy scenes before I came to
    Now do you think I was crazy?
    I may have been only three but I was swingin'

    They all laughed at Al Graham Bell
    They all laughed at Edison and also at Einstein
    So why should I feel sorry if they just couldn't understand
    The litany and the logic that went on in my head?
    I had a brain, it was insane
    Don't you let them laugh at me
    When I refused to ride on all those double decker buses
    All because there was no driver on the top

    My analyst told me that I was right out of my head
    The way he described it, he said I'd be better dead than live
    I didn't listen to his jive
    I knew all along he was all wrong
    And I knew that he thought I was crazy but I'm not
    Oh no!

    My analyst told me that I was right out of my head
    But I said "Dear doctor, I think that it's you instead
    'Cause I have got a thing that's unique and new
    It proves that I'll have the last laugh on you
    'Cause instead of one head... I got two
    And you know two heads are better than one"


    Most brains will process language with a higher priority than a melody. With songs, the melody gets attached as a subsidiary of the lyrics, memory wise. Actually the combination of lyrics/melody becomes more deeply ingrained than either spoken-word or melody alone. Which is why learning-songs (The Alphabet Song) are used so frequently in kindergarten and early elementary school. It is burned into multiple memory locations.

    If you "sing", with or without lyrics, you're exercising your sonic memory. (If you can't sing it, you haven't stored the memory). While tunes can also pass into sonic memory listening to yourself play them, it's much more of a passive, rather than active, process (earwise).

    Do you know what sol-feg (do re me fa......) really is and really does? I'ts a systematic way of transforming the merely sonic into something the linguistic portions of the brain can also latch onto, by giving instrumental tunes lyrics.

    mi . re . do . . . . . . mi . re . do
    so . fa-fa mi . . . . . . . so . fa-fa mi

    (What tune is that?)

    And the brain burns in the relationship between the various "lyrics" (syllables) with pitch relationships. Do-Mi-So-do becomes the lyric of a major arpeggio of the I chord.

    Musicianship is in the BRAIN, not (just) in the fingers. Humming/singing tunes doesn't do anything specifically for the muscles in your fingers, but it does a whole lot of stuff inside the BRAIN which ultimate tells the fingers where to go. Muscle memory pickers are victims of self-inflicted "Lazy Ear".

    Niles H

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    Pogue Mahone theCOOP's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    I meant to address the soundalike issue as well.

    I learned in university psychology that the idea that "they all look the same to me" regarding race, etc. is to some extent true. People of a certain race look for particular features in people of the same race that others do not, so people of a different race might all look the same to another race. The same might be happening here regarding celtic vs bluegrass vs. old time, etc.

    If your primary focus is celtic music for example, all bluegrass or jazz or etc. might all sound the same and vise versa.

    On the other hand, I recognise the similarities and differences between celtic, old time and bluegrass and distinguish one style from another and each tune from another...normally. Though I might not know the names. With that said, I'm not sure I can create one or another type of music. Even if I'm learning a bluegrass or (especially) old time tune...it might come out sounding celtic, especially if I try to embellish it.
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    Part-time picker HddnKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    @Randi - I'm with you on getting As of one tune crossed into the Bs of another - ususally for me it's one or two notes difference. If I reverse the crucial two notes at the crossing point between the A part and the B part I go down the wrong pathway. For example, right now I like to play Dan Murphy's polka, and I also like to play St. Annes' Reel, and if I'm not careful the A of Dan Murphy takes me down the road to the B of St Annes.
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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    Quote Originally Posted by mandocrucian View Post
    Musicianship is in the BRAIN, not (just) in the fingers. Humming/singing tunes doesn't do anything specifically for the muscles in your fingers, but it does a whole lot of stuff inside the BRAIN which ultimate tells the fingers where to go.
    It has been my experience.

    There is another way I can kind of tell. I cannot play the piano. I can hunt and peck out a melody, if I have learned it. So there is a case where there is no muscle memory, but just another way to sing the tune.
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    Mike Parks woodwizard's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    Remembering the names of the tunes, well thats entirely different.
    You bet! I usually know the tune but can't remember the name sometimes. That is another thing tho. Then there are tunes you know like the back of your hand ... well ... just as soon as someone starts the melody of it to jump start your brain if you know what I mean? So many tunes to squeeze in there.
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    I think I agree with Niles. If you can't remember it you haven't learned it. Just because one has learned where to put their fingers doesn't mean that one knows the the tune.

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    Registered User wildpikr's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    Do you know what sol-feg (do re me fa......) really is and really does? I'ts a systematic way of transforming the merely sonic into something the linguistic portions of the brain can also latch onto, by giving instrumental tunes lyrics.

    I agree, sol feg can be helpful in learning intervals, too

    mi . re . do . . . . . . mi . re . do
    so . fa-fa mi . . . . . . . so . fa-fa mi

    (What tune is that?)

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    If you can whistle it,then it's in your head to begin with - that's your starting point. Unfortunately the vast majority of Fiddle tunes are exactly that,tunes - no lyrics. I find that as long as i can get the tune 'in my head',then i'm fine when i come to try picking it.
    My biggest concern is when i decide i'd like to learn something by say,Chris Thile. One of his tunes,"Bailey",really appeals to me,but try whistling it - not a chance in hades !!. For me,these are 'non-tunes',with very little in the way of a 'melody line' & that almost defy playing by ear,unless you have the initials CT of course.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsNmZKu74nM

    Having recently purchased 2 Herschel Sizemore CD's,i'm busy working my way through those, "Sandy Ridge" from his "My Style" CD is my current victim & i find that i can follow the Fiddle line better than the Mandolin line - it's less 'fussy' shall we say. I also bought Becky Buller's CD "Rest my Weary Feet" (a great CD), in order to learn "Old Dangerfield". As i say, i can usually follow the Fiddle line better than the Mandolin line. But to go back to the OP,if you can whistle the tune,you're half way there,
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    "Muscle memory pickers are victims of self-inflicted "Lazy Ear" - Niles H

    this is it ... i can play a tune, parrot like, all afternoon and not be able to retain it the next day. mike bromley ("doc rock") offered the good suggestion of making up lyrics for instrumental fiddle tunes - even nonsense verses - to help the brain retain the tune yer' doin' ...

    ... there's no stopping me now

  22. #22
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    Quote Originally Posted by billkilpatrick View Post
    ...making up lyrics for instrumental fiddle tunes - even nonsense verses - to help the brain retain the tune yer' doin' ...
    Simple example for this from Jill:



    Now sing along and never forget:

    My love is in America, tee-diddlidee, tee-diddlidee,
    my love is in America, tee-diddlidee, tee-diddlidee,
    my love is in America, tee-diddlidee, tee-diddlidee,
    my love is in America, tee-diddlidee, tee-dee-lelee.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  23. #23

    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    gad zouks!?! ... it works!

  24. #24
    Distressed Model John Ritchhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    When I learn one I break it up into sections. With fiddle tunes there is usually an A part and a B part which repeat in some fashion, usually AABB. Then I look at each part. An example might be the A part has four sections and so does the B part if the tune isn't crooked. Two of the sections in each part are the same a lot of times so you're really only learning six separate lines. Sometimes it's even less. I get those in my head and then I find I can hum the tune through easily. Actually i don't hum or whistle. i use my Grandmother's Irish dee, di, dee do, dee, dee, deedle di, dee do.
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  25. #25
    Distressed Model John Ritchhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: remembering fiddle tunes

    And they don't all sound alike. Remember this one?

    The Fiddler’s Reply
    Joel Mabus

    It's a question that I've heard before
    And all that I can say to that is -- no sir!
    No sir!

    I have played a tune in the dark on the porch of a prairie farm –
    Summer rain coming down so straight you could set your chair right there
    On the edge of the porch and keep bone dry.
    Such straight regular rain, they say, is good for the crop.
    Good for tunes too, I say,
    Deep in the night, listening to the corn.

    And I remember a tune one winter afternoon up north, fiddling after chores.
    The sun staring in through a wet kitchen window –
    All ice outside, all steam inside.
    My chair tips back; the woodstove snaps loudly,
    Popping irregular time to the steppy tunes,
    Flannel and coffee, bisquits and boots.

    I've played tunes on a fine spring evening at the town hall dance
    Where everybody shows,
    Joking with the caller, shaking off winter,
    Stretching limbs, swapping partners for neighbors.
    Good healthy tempos break the first real sweat.
    Long lines forward and back and -- Look! Outside!
    The sun's still up on a fine green evening !

    And then there is a tune I know that plays just like a cold November morning.
    Sober. Inside, looking out.
    A gray air that wants chords unresolved –
    Turning into the mist like so many leaves, riven and broken,
    Returning from sky to earth after fall --The undeniable fall -- calls them home.

    I have played tunes -- not songs.
    Not voiceable, obvious word-infested songs -- but tunes,
    Each tune a puzzle, each one a box with its own proud secret.
    Each its own smile sweetly shown -- each tune is a lesson pondered.
    Pattern -- at once familiar yet unique --Like snow crystals -- like footprints –
    Like the way the world is
    right
    now.

    That's what a tune is, and, no sir.
    No sir.
    They don't all sound the same to me.
    We few, we happy few.

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