MAS strikes again

[michaelpthompson]

OK, I've only been playing the mandolin since January, and I've just bought my third one. The first was a vintage bowlback named Lyle, who came to me at Christmas. He turned out to be an education, which I've really valued.

The second was a $40 Rogue from Music123 that came with a gig bag and two books. Some people pay that much for a pick, so I figured the price couldn't be beat. It's definitely a cheapie, but after a setup, it doesn't play half bad. I kind of like the tone, though my pub mates prefer the woodier sound of Lyle.

The third hasn't arrive yet, but I ordered it today. After extensive discussions, especially with Tim2723, I've been keeping an eye out for an Ovation Celebrity MCS 148.

Finally located one at a really good price from Elderly Instruments. The description says it's in Excellent Condition EXCEPT that the bridge is lifting and it needs a setup. I'm not sure how a bridge that needs gluing counts as Excellent Condition, but if that's all that's wrong with it, I can handle that.

[Grommet]

Michael,

Nice! Although I've never played an Ovation mandolin, I have tried several of their guitars and found the necks to be really slick and easy to play. They are also known for a nice balanced sound. Have fun.

Scott

[mandroid]

Yea, a Guitar repair tech should be able to re glue the bridge,
since it happens to guitars every once in a while..

Maybe Elderly for a bit more $, will send it thru their repair department before shipping it.

[catmandu2]

Elderly's used item descriptions often leave out some of the "important stuff"... like structural issues. Sometimes, twisted necks, sunken tops, and other issues go unstated in their descriptions. I think mostly their condition "grading" criteria are concerning cosmetic issues, like finishes, etc.

[JeffD]

Elderly's used item descriptions often leave out some of the "important stuff"... like structural issues. Sometimes, twisted necks, sunken tops, and other issues go unstated in their descriptions. I think mostly their condition "grading" criteria are concerning cosmetic issues, like finishes, etc.

Ya got to have specifics if your going to make that kind of accusation. Unsubstantiated claims hurt businesses as much substantiated ones, and the shadow of an accusation is very long.

I don't recall seeing a decription that included structural issues, but I think I can confidently assume its because they don't try to sell that many. I have talked to Elderly from time to time about instruments, even had them play them for me over the phone, and asked specific questions and never got any impression they were misrepresenting anything, or that they would only tell me what I asked about. More than once they have called my attention to fine problems that I may not have noticed from the picture. I don't recall talking to them about an instrument with structural problems, but more importantly I have never had or heard of anyone getting an instrument from Elderly that wasn't as described. And I am 100% sure that were it to happen they would make good.

Unless there are specific examples, I think I can give Elderly the benefit of the doubt that if an instrument description doesn't include any "important issues", its because there aren't any. I have purchased things from them since before the internet, and am loyal to those who have always treated me and all my friends right.

[Jeff Budz]

It's so cute...

I've heard good things about them when amplified. You are a Trad Irish guy, how will the Ovation fit in with that style?

[catmandu2]

Ya got to have specifics if your going to make that kind of accusation.

IME, at least twice: once, twisted neck. Once, sunken top. It is what it is. Take it for whatever you want.

FWIW, I've bought lots of stuff from Elderly (and continue to do so). And I'm sure had I asked for a refund they would have provided it. And yes they do provide great customer service.

But, I'm responding to the OP's question about how it is that it is assessed as "excellent." I'm sure they do a lot of volume, and relatively inexpensive items may or may not receive the same attention as high value items, I don't know. But I do know that more than once their webiste has omitted (unintentionally I presume) "important issues," whether or not supplied by their appraisers, I don't know. But if there is a question, by all means pick up the phone and they'll play it for you.

[michaelpthompson]

Have to agree with Jeff. Elderly is a respected company, I've done business with them before and been quite satisfied, and they're a Mandolin Café sponsor. I'll reserve judgment 'til I actually see the instrument.

As for the gluing, I'm a lot more confident in my own abilities after my experience with the eBay bowlback from Christmas.

It's supposed to arrive Thursday. Can't wait.

[michaelpthompson]

I'm responding to the OP's question about "how it is assessed as excellent..

That's definitely a good question. "Excellent" to me would have no problems or blemishes whatsoever. Perhaps a little shopworn or something, but nothing like a loose bridge.

[michaelpthompson]

I've heard good things about them when amplified. You are a Trad Irish guy, how will the Ovation fit in with that style?

Well, Tim2723 says he plays his MM68 in Irish TRAD sessions. It's not as loud as some, but he says it holds its own when chording and playing rhythm. That's mostly what I do, though I'm looking to learn some picking as well. He also says it has a nice tone between bluegrass and bowlback, which should be good for me. My Rogue is nice and loud, but some of my mates think it's too harsh for gentle pub tunes. They like the tone of my bowlback better, so I figure the gentler tone of the Ovation unplugged will be good in small pub sessions.

Plus, we do play plugged in from time to time, so the Ovation saves me from having to put a pickup in either of my other mandolins.

[JeffD]

OK, I've only been playing the mandolin since January, and I've just bought my third one.]

You get the brass figlagee with bronze oak leaf palm for:

MAS above and beyond the control of duty,
The humility and transparency to admit it.

[catmandu2]

That's definitely a good question. "Excellent" to me would have no problems or blemishes whatsoever. Perhaps a little shopworn or something, but nothing like a loose bridge.

That's what I was explaining (my personal anecdote was only to convey my surprise at the system of grading, as well).

After years of dealing with Elderly (more than any other dealer I've purchased from), I have learned that their used inv product descriptions contain the important info, and the "condition grading" seems merely to deal with cosmetic issues, "wear and tear," etc. Often (yes, often) I see "EC....yada yada for a paragraph"...and parenthetically "(needs neck reset, refret, etc.)." Never said this isn't fair, only that you must read every word of the product description, and IME, it didn't always include some "important stuff." I presume they do a brisk business, and some things may go overlooked.

[Cheryl Watson]

The lady fiddler for Rod Stewart's live band was playing an Ovation mandolin on stage the other night.

[Charles E.]

I have never worked on one of these before however, if the bridge is coming up it will be difficult to glue back down. with out a normal sound hole to to access the inside for clamps you risk damaging the top by clamping from the outside only. With a rounded back it would be difficult to do that any way. It looks like there are two pearl or plastic dots in the bridge on either side and behind the strings, I would bet that if those were removed ( very carefully ) you would find machine screws to help attach the bridge to the top. It may be that the repair department at Elderly did not want to deal with it.

[TheMandoKit]

That's definitely a good question. "Excellent" to me would have no problems or blemishes whatsoever. Perhaps a little shopworn or something, but nothing like a loose bridge.

There is an explanation of the "Except for ..." usage on their web site here: http://www.elderly.com/vintage/abbreviations.html

NFI, just a long-time satisfied customer.

[michaelpthompson]

You're right, I didn't look closely enough at the descriptions. They say right on their web site that these are cosmetic descriptions.

Excellent Condition : Very clean, might have some minor wear, dings, scratches, or finish cracks, but otherwise very close to new condition.

They also mention the EXCEPT:

Exceptions
We also often will give you the cosmetic rating and then qualify it by stating "except . . ." The exceptions may sound as if the rating should be in a lower category. Technically that may be correct, but we find that if, for example, we rate a beautifully clean guitar as "GC" because it has a 1" repaired side crack that is hard to see, it gives the incorrect impression of the guitar. So, we will probably rate it as "EC except small repaired crack in the side". What we are saying is that cosmetically this is a really nice guitar but we want you to know that it is not absolutely perfect.

[almeriastrings]

What Charles E. says.

Also.. on some Ovations the bridge is glued not to the unfinished wood, but direct to the finish, using what appears to be superglue. I saw one of those a couple of years back. Not sure how old it was, but it too had a lifting bridge. Might be more work involved in this than you might expect... even refixing those bolts is going to be quite a tricky exercise as access is so limited. On guitars you may be able to remove the pre-amp module and get in via that route, but it could be a tight squeeze on one of these.