5 major chord form and the pinky finger

[swankerme]

I was watching this fantastic video lesson...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdKGCM9PMUU

...and Mark demonstrated that while performing the 5 Major chord form (example 1344), he uses his pinky finger as a barre for the top two strings. I have always used my ring finger for the top two, middle finger for the D string, and stretch my index back to the first fret. Upon practicing his way, I seem unable to get enough strength/pressure to manage using my pinky consistently.

Does anyone else have this trouble? Does it really matter which finger you use?

["Umm, fish?"]

Keep working on your pinkie strength. It'll get better and there are things you'll want to play where you need the strength.

[Jim Broyles]

I completely disagree with this guy's terminology. The numbers of chords are supposed to refer to degrees of the major scale. A 5 major chord would be a major chord whose root is the 5 or the fifth degree of the scale. do-re-mi-fa-sol - G in the key of C. D in the key of G. I would not call a chord with the 5th on top a 5 major chord, and I doubt very many other teachers or players would do so either. As far as how to finger the 1344 - I'd use ring-index-pinky-pinky for 1 3 4 4.

[Rob Gerety]

Yea, it is kind of a weird way to name the 3 chord shapes. No one else I have ever known uses this terminology and it could cause confusion as Jim points out. On the other hand it does help remember where the 1 3 5 notes are in each shape. I play that shape with the pinky catching both top strings. Sounds like your pinky might need some work out sessions.

[John Soper]

If you call them inversions, and name them by the lowest note, however, it DOES make sense... There are other chord forms for the parent major (and minor) chords with the lowest note the 3 or 5 of the chord, but these are the easiest & you can get a lot of mileage out of these non-bluegrass chord forms.

[Rob Gerety]

Different shapes? Or just named differently for the bass note instead of the treble?

[JonZ]

There is an old tenor banjo method by a guy named McNeil who lables the shapes I, III, and V, based on the scale note that is in the lowest string. That could be where this naming convention comes from. He talks about the "V family chords", and so on. It made sense to me, but I was not aware of other naming conventions.

[mandolirius]

It reinforces what I always tell my students - be careful of numbers in music. They're used in so many different ways, the potential for confusion is great.

[BradKlein]

What's wrong with 'first inversion', 'second inversion' and third, when discussing the major triad?

[lenf12]

What's wrong with 'first inversion', 'second inversion' and third, when discussing the major triad?

There's nothing wrong with the term "inversion" but one must include "root" position in this discussion which has the 1st tone of the scale in the bass. 1st inversion has the 3rd tone of the scale in the bass, 2nd inversion has the 5th tone of the scale in the bass. I assume that 3rd inversion would have the 7th tone (or possibly the flatted 7th tone) of the scale in the bass.

Regards,
Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[JonZ]

Are there different names for the first inversion of a C chord if one is stacked E C G and the other E G C?

[BradKlein]

Thanks Len. I should have written, 'root, first inversion, and second inversion'. I'm an old dog trying to learn some useful theory and vocabulary, with the help of my friends here at the Cafe.

[pglasse]

For what it's worth, I would finger the chord in question without the bar. That is, I would use all separate fingers. Pitch wise from low to high I would use the following fingers: 1,2,3,4.

For me, having a separate finger (pinky, 4th) on the E string makes it easier to alter the chord in cool ways. Try this:

G string: A note on second fret, first finger
D string: F# note on fourth fret, second finger
A string: D note on fifth fret, third finger
E string: A note on fifth fret, fourth finger

That's a D major chord with the fifth of the chord on the top and bottom.

Now raise the top and bottom notes a half step, making it a D augmented chord.

Next play a G major chord as follows:

G string: B note on fourth fret, first finger
D string: G note on fifth fret, second finger
A string: D note on fifth fret, second finger (yes that's a bar)
E string: B note on seventh fret, fourth finger

So, chord-wise, that's D to D augmented to G.

That's the fingering that works for me. In general, I have slender fingers and feel that often I can get more mobility on individual notes if I play each note with a separate finger.

Your mileage may vary.

Thanks

[SincereCorgi]

Are there different names for the first inversion of a C chord if one is stacked E C G and the other E G C?

Not really, but you can be pretty specific about your interval spacing if you use figured bass suffixes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figured_bass

However, writing these for practical music-making went out of fashion with harpsichord continuo. You could bring them back Jon. You have the power.

[JeffD]

While that is a good way to present all the information, and thats how I first learned chords, I find it not as useful a way of organizing or remembering or thinking about chords. It shows you whats there, but its difficult to get at that knowldedge while playing.

Another way of presenting the same information, that helps me more, is to organize the shapes up and down the neck (put in the three finger shapes, and what the heck the two finger shapes as well) in terms of where the root note is. So if your finger is here, make it the root and remembering all the chord shapes that have the root there you can make major chords out of this note this way and this way. And if your finger is there, you can make major chords here and here.

Both methods teach where stuff is on the neck, and the flexibility of moveable shapes, but the second method "files" it for easy access when playing.

[Jim Broyles]

I completely disagree with this guy's terminology. The numbers of chords are supposed to refer to degrees of the major scale. A 5 major chord would be a major chord whose root is the 5 or the fifth degree of the scale. do-re-mi-fa-sol - G in the key of C. D in the key of G. I would not call a chord with the 5th on top a 5 major chord, and I doubt very many other teachers or players would do so either. As far as how to finger the 1344 - I'd use index-ring--pinky-pinky for 1 3 4 4.

Edited to correct the fingering. I might also use a different finger for each string I don't know what I was thinking when I typed that, except that I didn't have my mandolin in my hands at the time and I messed up the way I was thinking of the chord shape.

[JonZ]

Not really, but you can be pretty specific about your interval spacing if you use figured bass suffixes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figured_bass

However, writing these for practical music-making went out of fashion with harpsichord continuo. You could bring them back Jon. You have the power.

Actually, I sort of like the whole I, III and V family thing. It is sort of how Mike Marshall describes them through most of his chord book. At the beginning, he explains inversions, but thereafter he just refers to them by the bottom note: root, 3rd, 5th.

You could also use a system similar to C A G E D for guitar, where each form is named after its open position shape. That would be C G Eb, which can also be moved down one course.

I have learned the chords the way that JeffD recommends. It does get a little confusing, though, when you start changing the root to a 9th or 7th on an extended, three-finger chord...

Or maybe it's helpful...

I don't actually play many extended chords.