Foot tapping and timing-The story of Pinnochio

[EdSherry]

The OP was describing a four-motion tapping (left toe, right toe, left heel, right heel) that strikes me as too complex for someone not totally comfortable with tapping. I just use a single tap approach (right toe down, right toe up; repeat) that is much less complex.

As Niles' post shows, there's a lot you can do with your feet. I've watched a number of French Canadian fiddlers doing a lovely "clogging" step that really adds to the percussive sound of their performance, like in this YouTube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xUJI2pffBQ

But I've never been able to master it.

There's a nice thread on this over at fiddlehangout:

http://www.fiddlehangout.com/topic/14329

[Randi Gormley]

Internal assimilation? If it appears to be working, then even the annoyance is worth it longterm, eh?

[Marcelyn]

In my experience, toe tapping isn't useful so much to keep a beat, but it is incredibly useful in drawing out the pulse or drive of a tune. Recording myself, I can often see that the only difference between two takes of the same song--one with tapping, one without--is a more rhythmic bounce that gives the tune more life and character.

If you're tapping on every beat, this won't happen though. Try humming a tune or listening to a recording of it and seeing where you naturally tap your feet or want to clap. This downbeat usually falls on the first and third beats on 4/4 tunes like reels or hornpipes and on the first beat of 3/4 songs like jigs or waltzes.

Warning though, once you get the knack, it's pretty tough to play without tapping subconsciously. Normally that's fine, but when recording with a sensitive microphone or performing on a wooden stage, it can be pretty noticable. Even so, I like it and would definitely say it's a worthwhile thing for trad and old time musicians to try.

[Rob Gerety]

I know its not the standard thinking in the traditional music world - but my feeling is that emphasis on the 2 and 4 actually give many 4/4 time dance tunes (reels) a lot more drive and jump than emphasis on the 1 and 3. Try it and see what you think.

[foldedpath]

I know its not the standard thinking in the traditional music world - but my feeling is that emphasis on the 2 and 4 actually give many 4/4 time dance tunes (reels) a lot more drive and jump than emphasis on the 1 and 3. Try it and see what you think.

Uh oh, putting on the 'ol Trad Police hat here...

There are reels, and there are reels. It depends on whether you're playing in one of the many offshoots of the music like Americana and ContraDance reels, or the "pure drop" stuff. For Irish traditional reels, backbeats can kill the inherent rhythm pulse, which is much more likely to be landing on the 1 and 3.

Not to be jumping on 'ya here... but it's a sure sign of a Bluegrass or OldTime player coming in from "outside" and trying to play rhythm backup in an Irish session, when they start in with that backbeat on a reel. Save that for the OldTime and Bluegrass jams where you're playing a "reel" like St. Anne's or Whiskey Before Breakfast. It can sound great on 'trad polkas and marches too. Traditional Irish reels are something else again. Here's what an Irish reel sounds like (listen where the foot tap is):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byYDj7NtO20

And putting in the context of the dancers (listen to the feet):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9gVF...eature=related

P.S. if this sounds a bit defensive, it's because there is a novice mandolin player at our local Irish session who sits near me when I'm backing on guitar, and drives me bonkers playing strong backbeats on reels, because that's what they're used to doing in OldTime jams. It's a developing player, so I think the situation will improve, but in the meantime it can be just a wee bit distracting.

[GRW3]

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this!"

"Don't do that!"

While I might tap involuntarily, I haven't tapped on purpose since I was in high school band. I do use a metronome routinely. Arual timing ques are ver important. Roland White tells funny story about how he learned to stop tapping his foot at the demand of Bill Monroe.

Foot tapping is just dance trying to escape.

[Marcelyn]

Okay, Rob, I tried that, and the results were hilarious. That will take a lot of practice.

Anyway, I agree that foo tapping is pretty much a bad idea for most situations. I don't think tapping will make you a human metronome in private and tapping or stamping loudly certainly shouldn't be used to convince players at a jam that you are the one on the beat.

Just about the only time I think it's a cool effect is when solo fiddlers or mandoinists use it as a bit of added percussion. It can really be a nice touch sometimes.

[Bertram Henze]

tapping or stamping loudly certainly shouldn't be used to convince players at a jam that you are the one on the beat.

In large noisy sessions it is indispensable to keep both ends of the session synced. But then it's not one who does the tapping, it's ALL.

Just about the only time I think it's a cool effect is when solo fiddlers or mandoinists use it as a bit of added percussion. It can really be a nice touch sometimes.

Yeah, but you have to be good at it.

[Patrick Bouldin]

I tap my toe a lot, but it's always on the off beat, and seems to look rather odd for non-mando players. I've tried to do it on the on beat, and can do it, but not very fast. I find that when I'm moving fast on one it takes/distracts energy from the pcking and my toe looks totally lost!


I say this because in my opinion the toe tapping limits my speed at more than 90 to 100 bpm. Any others have this issue of tapping on the off-beat?

Patrick

[Mandolinator]

I'm in the unable-to-tap-and-play-to-save-my-life club. I keep pretty good time with my hands, the bones, or an instrument when playing in a group, and with a metronome (though I too tend to do better at tempos close to the high end of what I can play well). Not perfect but not bad and improving.

I've always been a tragically horrible dancer and assumed all my life I just lacked a sense of rhythm. Then a few years ago, I started play Irish Trad (whistle and mando), and found I wasn't half bad for a beginner. My wife, on the other hand, is a great dancer but can't keep time on a guitar for love or money. We've decided I only have rhythm above the waist and she only has it in her legs. :-)

Being able to tap and play seems to me a sign of proficiency, not a necessary tool to achieve proficiency. When I started playing mando, I couldn't sing and play chords together, and now I can (though I still can't sing and play melody at the same times). Presumably, as my playing gets better and I don't have to think about it so much, more of my brain will be free to do other things, like tapping or singing. But with all deference to those here who are undoubtedly better players, I'm not convinced tapping is something I need to learn to do.

[ralph johansson]

There is nothing wrong with foot tapping per se. But there is no real reason to tap. Why have your brain tell your foot to stay in time so that your foot can tell your hands to stay in time? Why not just have your brain tell your hands to stay in time?

Well, my idea is that, playing on my own, my foot keeps time and my axe relates to it, e.g., by syncopation, by dragging slightly behind the beat, etc.

[John McGann]

Becoming "one with the pulse" is something you can develop, in fact should develop, without an instrument in your hands. If you can clap along with a recording while tapping your foot (I also like the full body groove- a hard one for the conservatory trained) and stay in time, you are halfway there. If you can do that, you can probably do it with a metronome, and if not, don't give up after 5 minutes-

-the only sport that doesn't require tenacity is the TV Clicker Olympics

[journeybear]

... But there is no real reason to tap. Why have your brain tell your foot to stay in time so that your foot can tell your hands to stay in time? Why not just have your brain tell your hands to stay in time?

Pretty much how I feel. For me, it is like assigning more brain activity to a function that doesn't matter, and thus can throw my playing off. It's more important to me to be in sync with the other players, and in a trio with bas and guitar, sometimes it's a coin flip as to who is really in rhythm. If someone gets off, I try to lock in with whomever seems to be right, and hope the third will fall in with us. Thank goodness these songs are usually short!

[Mike Bunting]

Becoming "one with the pulse" is something you can develop, in fact should develop, without an instrument in your hands. If you can clap along with a recording while tapping your foot (I also like the full body groove- a hard one for the conservatory trained) and stay in time, you are halfway there. If you can do that, you can probably do it with a metronome, and if not, don't give up after 5 minutes-

-the only sport that doesn't require tenacity is the TV Clicker Olympics

Totally! Especially the "full body groove". The music has to be inside you.