Still considered an Irish Bouzouki?

[allenhopkins]

I think it's a long-neck octave mandolin, generally, which some tune differently from GDAE, but almost always a basic "fifths" tuning with perhaps one course altered (GDAD, e.g.). But as I said (three times) above, that's just me.

Welsh rarebit doesn't come from Wales, Swedish meatballs aren't Scandinavian, Mexican pizza is neither. Irish bouzouki is neither, as well. It can be used to play a polka, which isn't Polish, or a schottische, which isn't Scottish, or even a square dance where the dancers may execute an allemande, which isn't German either. But as Shakespeare (who was English) said, "What's in a neme? An octave mandolin by any other name could play as sweet..." or something like that.

[Dustin]

Care to propose an alternative?

A "long scale mexican pizza"! (lol)

[Eddie Sheehy]

I'm surprised it's not called an "AULD" or an Odd Oud, dude.

[Kyle Baker]

I can't believe this thread is still going... both sides can only argue the same points over and over so many times. Maybe when this thread gets to page 5 we can still see if people are talking about mexican pizzas :p

[Bertram Henze]

Maybe when this thread gets to page 5 we can still see if people are talking about mexican pizzas :p

Maybe we can sidetrack it to Irish Coffee?

One interesting point is that the Mexicans probably don't know what a Mexican pizza is, OTOH the Irish know perfectly well what an Irish Bouzouki is and have probably coined the name. Which raises the question who invented Mexican Pizza - probably an Irish car driver who ran over a cat in Lazaro Cardenas. Which in turn offers an explanation as to why Irish Bouzoukis have flat backs.

[Ben Milne]

LOL - I just skipped pages 2 and 3 of this thread and it was pretty much seamless.

While I often revel in being quite priddish about things i am passionate about I also see the sense in using terms that have been adopted into common usage.
If someone asks me about my little-guitar-thingy, and enquires further about what a mandolin is, I am torn, as The prid in me is screaming for me to say a little mandola. Of course it could be quite counterproductive to the conversation, so i usually go on to explain about scale length, unison pairs steel strings tuned to fifths etc.

I can appreciate all points of view here, and I think the important thing to remember is that they are just big little-guitar-thingies that we enjoy playing no matter how they're tuned where the neck joins and what style of music we're playing.

now back to the matter in hand...

(EDIT) - looking back at the intermediate pages I had to LOL at Eddie's post (#31) GOLD!

[Jim Yates]

I have always thought along the lines of Allen's posts. I don't like the terms Bouzouki or cittern, since they already apply to instruments already in existence. Grit Laskin calls all of his instruments, regardless of length of neck or number of string, long neck mandolins. I like that label. I've also heard them called mando-things or monster mandolins.

I play what most folks call an octave mandolin (Dustin would call it a "hunk of junk", but...) usually tuned GDAD. I have never heard that GDAD meant bouzouki and GDAE meant OM.

To me, an octave mandola is tuned CGDA, an octave below a mandola; if it's tuned an octave below a mandolin, it's an octave mandolin. I've always refered to the mandolin family and the violin family in the same way: violin/mandolin, viola/mandola, violin cello/mandolin cello, string bass/mando bass.

[Paul Kotapish]

I have sent an email to Rich Westerman, with a hope he might be able to throw some light on OMs. He was certainly building something like that in the late 70s.

I have a Rich Westerman octave mandolin that he built for me in 1979. 23-1/2" scale. I still have the handwritten note he sent with the completed instrument in which he refers to it as a "bazook." (I sold the instrument in the '80s sometime and it changed hands a number of time before making its way back to me. It's had a number of modifications over the years--most recently a new fingerboard and tailpiece. Still sounds good and I used it on an Open House reunion tour recently. I'll try to get a photo up soon.

I call it an octave mandolin when I want to be accurate and a bouzouki when I need to differentiate it from the conventional mandolin with sound engineers or studio producers who need a substantially different term when we're discussing how to mic and EQ the various instruments. They get confused with the octave mandolin moniker.

Rich made these in three scale lengths: 21", 23-1/2", and 26-1/4". He also made an instrument he called a cittern--with five courses, I think--as well as conventional flat-top mandolins. I've lost the original brochure with the details.

When I interviewed Stefan Sobell some years back, he told me in some detail that the inspiration for the sound his archtop OM/bouzouki/cittern was a Martin C-1 roundhold archtop that he traded a touring yank for a rebuilt VW engine. Turns out the yank was on Riggy Rackin, a stalwart of the local SF Bay Area trad music scene and mostly a concertina player and singer these days. Riggy confirms the story.

Stefan fused the archtop construction with the shape of the Portuguese guitarra he'd been playing and . . . magic.

Here is a page with that bit of history and some photos on Stefan's own website:

http://www.sobellinstruments.com/en-...stcittern.aspx

Those early Martin C-1s are great instruments on their own terms, by the way, and way, way undervalued. I always keep one around. When Martin switched to f-holes to compete with Gibson more directly for the jazz market, they abandoned a great design. The original C-2 and C-3 were also great.

[Eddie Sheehy]

I only read this thread for gems from Paul and Allen.. A rose by any other name is still a rose - Will Shakespeare.

[allenhopkins]

I only read this thread for gems from Paul and Allen...

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. You have my blessing to call your OM/zouk whatever you like.