Radiused Fretboard

[Loretta Callahan]

After playing my fancy pants Jethro Burns F style scrolly, Florida .... whatever .... mandolin for about 9 months, I decided to use a capo as I changed strings. Capo wouldn't fit. There was a slight curve to the fretboard.

Called my luthier: ... "Ken does my mandolin have a radiused fretboard?" "Yes, it has a slight radius", he replied. I never noticed ... even tho' my first mandolin had a flat fretboard.

Didn't give it much thought until I picked up the radiused Washburn again ... after playing my flat fretted Big Muddy for about a month. I love the Muddy, but I realized it was a bit harder to play .. after the Washburn.

I'm cool with it, but now I gotta have me a flat-top, round/oval hole mandolin with a radius fretboard .... I give myself six months to make the change/purchase.

I'll either trade my Muddy up with the Muddy folks and get them to make me a radiused one, or trade in the Muddy for another flat-top radiused.

I'm thinking this mandolin buying business doesn't ever end .... does it? .... nor do these tongue twisting terms like "flat fretted fretboard flat-top" mandolin.

[Kay Kirkpatrick]

I didn't know how much I preferred the radius until I played one of my other mandos after months of abandonment. I thought I was totally satisfied, then I read Ed G's recent post about the 1 3/32 neck. Now I'm wondering...

[Mike Bunting]

I have a Collings with a radiused board and a Stanley with a flat board and I never found that it made much of a difference. I wondered if there might be a problem in acclimatizing when I got the Stanley but encountered no difficulty at all in making the transition to the flat fingerboard.

[Rob Gerety]

I find that most people will adjust to pretty much anything after a while. Not a big deal.

[Loretta Callahan]

Maybe I'll swap back and forth more often .... and I may not notice the difference so much.

[Rob Gerety]

Yea, its good to be able to pick up any instrument and be able to adjust.

[Ed Goist]

I'd really like to be able to go back and forth between flat and radiused boards, but I've come to realize I'm a radius board guy all the way!

I'm just now coming off of a frustrating 10 day bout with tendonitis that I am sure was brought on by extensively playing my flat-boarded bowlback. Too many hours, over too many days on a flat board, and BAM!, my left index finger looks like a bratwurst! Also, this is the second time this exact thing has happened to me (and the other time was with a different flat board mandolin).

Moreover, and interestingly, playing on a radiused board actually seems to have a therapeutic affect for me regarding the tendonitis! Playing on the radius seems to help loosen and helpfully stretch the tendons and joints in my fingers. For me, from now on, it's radiused boards only!

Of course, YMMV! I know that others here have had the exact opposite experience.

[Mike Snyder]

A 7 1/2" radius is going to play much different than a 10 1/2". I truly feel no difference between my 10 1/2" and a flat board, but I really liked the more radical radii that I have played.

[JeffD]

I'm cool with it, but now I gotta have me a flat-top, round/oval hole mandolin with a radius fretboard .... I give myself six months to make the change/purchase.

I'll either trade my Muddy up with the Muddy folks and get them to make me a radiused one, or trade in the Muddy for another flat-top radiused. I'm thinking this mandolin buying business doesn't ever end .... does it? ....

Since when is enough ever enough?

[JeffD]

Maybe I'll swap back and forth more often ....

Its much like a water bet. At first I slept so much better in a water bed. Then I got used to it. But I found I slept better in hotels with a regular bed. So, I went back to a regular bed. Slept better for a while, till I got used to it. Later, having opportunity to sleep on a water bed again, I found that I slept better.

Its the change that awakens something in us to appreciate something different from what we had gotten used to.

[Brent Hutto]

I'm trying to quit spending so much time on forums but Jeff's comment is too apt to pass up...

When I got the big, tall armrest from Mike Black to put on my mandolin it was the best single thing I'd ever done to make playing more comfortable. It puts my wrist in a perfectly neutral, almost-flat angle and lets me position the pick anywhere I like without holding my arm up or down or bent or turned. Wonderful

Fast forward a few months and something about my right arm hasn't been quite right the last few days. Can't quite figure it out but I'm starting to squeeze with my arm and search around with my hand for a more comforable and stable position. So this afternoon I took the armrest off and just played with my arm slightly above the edge of the mandolin. Wonderful! The most comfortable I've felt in days and days. And getting a good, relaxed picking stroke is much simpler now.

But the magic will wear off in a couple days or a couple weeks and I'll put the armrest back on there. And it'll be the best-feeling thing I've ever done!

[JeffD]

A married couple had an argument. (I know, weird, huh?)

Days later the couple went to the state fair together. As the woman pursued some funnel cakes, the man wandered off and found himself in front of one of these fortune telling machines, you know, with a animated puppet of a fortune telling gypsy, behind glass, who will answer your question for a buck in quarters.

Forlorn and having no hope, he explained his fight and the gist of the argument to the animatronic gypsy, puts in the quarters and got this response:

“You are absolutely right.”


He ran back to his wife elated, and told her of the gypsy’s obviously superior intellect and related the gypsy’s summary judgement. She exclaimed: “that is crazy, you can’t get marital advice from a machine. Besides which,” she says, “you probably told only your side of it.”

He challenged her to go to the arcade and put some quarters in for herself.

More to humor him than with any serious thought as to its efficacy, she headed down to the gypsy machine, while he stayed behind and had a funnel cake. She explained her side of the argument, put in the quarters. The gypsy responded:

“You are absolutely right.”


She runs back to her husband, just finishing his funnel cake, and smugly tells him what happened. “As soon as the gypsy woman heard the truth of the matter, she agreed with me that I am right.”

The man is astonished. He recommends they go together and confront the machine. He says to the gypsy, “You heard my side and said I was right, and you heard her side and said she was right. Come on, we can’t both be right!” Then he put in four quarters.

The gypsy responded:

“You are absolutely right.”

[Brent Hutto]

What can I say Jeff, you're absolutely right.

[Loretta Callahan]

You're right, Brent! Jeff is absolutely right! Radius arch top, and flat fretted flat top: absolutely right.

[Jill McAuley]

Loretta, if you find there's no difference between flat vs. radius then grand, but if you prefer radius/find it more comfortable, then by all means go down that path (just like some folk prefer a flat fretboard...). It's all well and good that some folks don't notice a difference, but some folks do (me being one of them) so I choose to play radius fretboards only. Not much point in playing a mandolin I'm not comfortable on.

Cheers,
Jill

[JeffD]

I seem to notice it more going from a radiused mandolin to a flat. The flat feels uncomfortable at first. I don't seem to notice an increase in comfort going the other way.

But Jill nailed an important point. The way each of us plays and what we are comfortable with and what aspects are important to that comfort, well its really more variable and individual than one would expect. Try stuff out, stick with what works.

[Loretta Callahan]

Thanks, Jill ... and Jeff. I agree, Jill ... it's all about what's comfortable and enjoyable to play. I'm switching mandolins for each practice session .... to see how much I notice the flat fretboard. Gonna give it a coupla weeks. My luthier called and said there's a radiused rosewood Big Muddy ... like mine ... coming into the shop. I'm going to give it a try when it arrives ... if I love it, I'll trade my flat fret for the radiused fret Muddy.

One thing that I'm keeping in mind, also, is to be mindful of keeping my left wrist from developing problems ... which I'm hearing is sometimes less of an issue with radiused fretboards. Since I passed the spring chicken age some 45 years ago ... I need all the help I can get.

[Loretta Callahan]

After almost two weeks of switching fretboards; the radius is definitely the ticket for me. Looks like I'll be trading the flat fretted Muddy for a radiused Muddy.

I promise, however, not to post every week telling folks my new radius mandolin is "almost" here. Really ... I promise. Unless, of course, anyone is losing sleep over its arrival

[Ed Goist]

Loretta; now we are invested!
Be sure to post pictures when it arrives.
Will it have a straight or compound radius?
Do you know what the radius on the board is (usually given in inches)?

[Loretta Callahan]

Of course I'll post pics, Ed! I'll find out the specs from my luthier and post each spec in a separate post, along with the shipping tracking information. Maybe I'll do a review of the shipping company too. That should lessen the suspense and mask the fact that I have no idea what a compound or straight radius is

Loretta; now we are invested!
Be sure to post pictures when it arrives.
Will it have a straight or compound radius?
Do you know what the radius on the board is (usually given in inches)?

[Brent Hutto]

So it's been a while, Loretta. Is your new radiused Muddy here?

[Paul Busman]

Loretta-- If you really love your flat fretted instrument but wish it had a radiused board, that CAN be retrofitted. Cost wise it may or may not make sense though. Ask your luthier.

[jmagill]

Of course, it's a matter of subjective 'feel,' but a radiused fingerboard just makes sense to me.

In the late '70s, when I was just starting to make my living as a mandolin player, I was a devotee of the Grisman/Marshall/O'Connor school and I heard they played with radiused boards. The first time I tried one, I was sold. At the time, no factory mandolins came with a radiused fingerboard, and eventually my search led me to John Monteleone, who made me a superb Grand Artist model with a radiused board. I don't remember what dimension the radius was, but it was wonderfully comfortable in my hand.

I'm considering having a radiused board retrofitted to the A model I'm playing now. In talking to my repair tech, the process is fairly straightforward: the frets would be removed and the fingerboard planed to the desired radius, then refretted. Then the nut and bridge would be re-cut or curved slightly to match the new radius. The cost would be several hundred bucks, so some might find replacement with a radiused instrument preferrable, but if the mandolin has the right sound, a retrofit is certainly an option.

The radius is usually between 20" and 7.25" because these are the dimensions for which radius gauges are readily available, though my tech said he could make one smaller working freehand (presumably at greater cost). A 12" to 9" radius is pretty common on fretted instruments. If you take a string, secure one end and tie the other around a pencil point, you can draw arcs with a radius of various lengths. With a fingerboard the width of a mandolin, you'll find the difference between 12" and 8" is very slight, and even 7.25" is pretty modest. Also, given the short length of the fingerboard, I've been persuaded that a cylindrical radius would not feel noticeably different from a more costly conical, or compound radius.

For me, it's radiused boards from here on out, and if a mandolin I'm interested in doesn't have one, I have to figure in the cost of a retrofit, or keep looking. It's all just part of the quest for an instrument that looks, plays, feels and sounds just like you want it to.

[Ed Goist]

of course i'll post pics, ed! I'll find out the specs from my luthier and post each spec in a separate post, along with the shipping tracking information. Maybe i'll do a review of the shipping company too. That should lessen the suspense and mask the fact that i have no idea what a compound or straight radius is

LOL!

Oh, Loretta, thank you! It is wonderful to begin a day with laughter.

BTW, a compound radius board is shaped like a cone (with more arch near the nut, less at the 12th fret, and even less at the saddle). A straight radius board is shaped like a cylinder (the radius at the nut, 12th fret, saddle, and all the way down the board is the same).

I'm looking forward to seeing your new mandolin...and the tracking information, of course!

[Tom C]

I have a mando with flat fretboard and one with a slight radius 16". I tend to like the flat one better. I seem to get better chops and having a weaker pinky, the string is not on a downslope of the radius -or over the hill. Heck. How about a reverse radius on the G and D strings so you push a little against the strings?