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Thread: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

  1. #1

    Default Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Hi I know there is already a ton of thread about ear training etc.
    Most of them claim that the best way to improve your ear is to sit down and try to play what you hear. Well what happens if someone can't do that ? I'm sure I'm not tone deaf because I can whistle most of the melodies I hear (not very well but I can ).But I cannot play what I hear.
    What I need is a systematic method which is going to help me with my problem .Probably a book a dvd or just a some things which I'm going to do daily .

    Any idea ?

    thanks for your help and your great forum
    excuse me for my english .

  2. #2
    Peace. Love. Mandolin. Gelsenbury's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    I'm going through the same process. I guess our voice is an instrument with which we are much more familiar than the mandolin! I'm sure there's nothing wrong with your ears, it's just a matter of matching sounds to positions on the fretboard. This can be all the more difficult if what you are hearing is a different instrument.

    I start by trial and error. I listen to a tune, focus on a single prominent note and make sure I can hum it sustainedly at just the right pitch. Then I find the same note on the mandolin, and the melody can usually be reconstructed from there. The starting point is the key.

  3. #3
    NY Naturalist BradKlein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Dear Abby had a stock answer I seem to remember, telling people to seek the help of a professional. Likewise, I think that the best possible answer to many posts is, 'find a compatible teacher to work with.' My music lessons are split between guitar, mandolin, voice and ear training. And being an old dog, new tricks come very slowly to me, so I've had to learn patience. If you can find a teacher who you like working with, it's one of the great musical pleasures.
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    Registered User PaulG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Quote Originally Posted by rwmanos View Post
    What I need is a systematic method which is going to help me with my problem .Probably a book a dvd or just a some things which I'm going to do daily .
    The trick is to start simple. Trying starting with just two notes, say, the open A string, and the E below it. Play those notes and then sing them. Make up simple melodies with just those two notes in them, and sing them. As you're singing each note randomly, since you only have two, you should be able to immediately detect which of the two notes it is, and follow along on your mandolin in real-time. In a very simple way, you're playing the music in your head by doing thing, going almost straight from head to fingers, without the thinking part of your brain getting in the way.

    When you get proficient at this, just start adding more notes. Add the C# above the A, and invent three note melodies for a while. When proficient at that, add the B, then the F#. Keep going until you've got all 12 notes. Make sure during these exercises that you're singing the melody, and following along with your fingers, to make sure that it's your head, and not your fingers, that are creating the music.

    This will also help getting you started with improvisation, allowing you to create music without worrying about scales or arpeggios or the rest, just playing the notes.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    That sounds great . I'm going to try this exercise and i'll keep you informed.

  6. #6
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Are you looking to be able to figure out how to play a tune without tab/sheet music? Or are you asking how to reproduce on the mandolin the exact pitch you are hearing? For the first question, here are few things I do:

    First make sure you are tuned up, then try to play along with youtube, CD's, radio, etc. Play the first few bars of the song, then moving your left hand up and down the fretboard, find the note/chord the song starts with. Continue with the next few bars. Yes this is tedious, but you'll see it start to get easier. The vast majority of rock, blues, country, bluegrass and folk follows a predictable I, IV V chord pattern. For example in the key of D, D is the I chord, G is the IV chord and A is the V. Playing along with others will help a lot, too, as you'll get exposed to more songs in less time.

    Now for the second question, that is being able to accurately re-produce the exact pitch you hear, here are my thoughts: I can do this because I've played in bands and orchestras since elementary school. It took a long time for me to develop this ability. It is helpful in a jam situation to pick out what key you're in, but I don't think it is vital to good musicianship.

  7. #7
    Registered User Miked's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    I'm not sure where you're at with basic music theory, but a I-IV-V chord progression is a really good one to be able to recognize by ear. There are countless songs that use 3 chords like G (I), C (IV), D (V) where G is the root chord (I) in the key of G. 12 bar blues was something that I learned at an early age and drilled in the concept of a I-IV-V progression. You get a feel for the sound of the intervals between the chords and from there you can start to see how a melody line fits within the shape of the chord progression. Getting a solid feel for the chord progression comes first.
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  8. #8
    Registered User Miked's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Hey Mandobart, from the looks of your avatar, it appears that the blues had a little influence on you.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Listen to a lot of music, I mean sit down and listen to it! Practice scales so that you are familiar with the notes on the mandolin that way you will spend less time hunting. You have it right, be able to whistle or hum the melody.

  10. #10
    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Quote Originally Posted by rwmanos View Post
    Hi I'm sure I'm not tone deaf because I can whistle most of the melodies I hear (not very well but I can ).But I cannot play what I hear.

    What I need is a systematic method which is going to help me with my problem .Probably a book a dvd or just a some things which I'm going to do daily .

    Any idea ?
    If you can whistle something, you should be able to play it with enough practice. Whistle the first note. Now play any note on your mandolin. Is your whistled note higher or lower? If lower, try playing another note on the mando that is higher. Is it higher or lower than your whistled note?

    If you keep doing this process, you will eventually find the note you are whistling (of course you need to keep that whistled note in your mind). I can not stress enough that if one keeps practicing this way, eventually you will be able to play that sound in your mind.

    Suggestion: start with very easy, familiar melodies. Folk songs and nursery rhymes are great for this.
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  11. #11
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miked View Post
    Hey Mandobart, from the looks of your avatar, it appears that the blues had a little influence on you.
    Does it show that bad?

  12. #12
    Registered User Jon Hall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    I agree with PaulG. Whistle or hum the notes as you play them on mandolin. This builds neural connections between your brain and your fingers.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Establishing a relative sense of pitch is every fiddle players cross to bear. A violin being fretless, you have to "be the pitch." Called intonation.
    Mandolin players are lucky. If you have a digital tuner, one simply tunes to the tuner visually. If you take one string out of the pair and detune it slightly, you'll be able to hear a dissonent tone. When you have a reference tone (the other string) you can home in on the proper pitch as you re-tune. One of the things that helps to hear this is sustain. Not much sustain on a mandolin. All the sustain you want in the human voice.
    Which brings me (the long way around) to Barbershop. All i can say is, don't knock it until you go to the national website. There's tutorials of how to sing on pitch. Now, you've got an advantage over these guys, They don't have an instrument for a reference. Maybe find a cheep chord organ. Something with sustain. Something that you can have a long time to slowly hear your self coming into pitch.
    Maybe this isn't the type of intonation you want to work on, but i've sort of found, it's all connected. You don't need perfect pitch, just a relative sense of pitch. Good luck. FJ

  14. #14
    Still a mandolin fighter Mandophyte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Try this.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Hey farmerjones
    which web site are you talking about ? :S
    (sorry if I misunderstood)

  16. #16

    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Thank you all for the answers I'm gonna try every single suggestion to see what works :D

  17. #17

    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    A method someone told me once to finding a note with your ear: first of all, identify the very lowest note that you can sing/hum. (Mine is E). This apparently, doesn't change much over time. So to identify what a note is, sing/hum to yourself your lowest note, then count up the notes to find the correct note.
    Another good way of practicing identifying notes is play thirds, eg e g b d etc, to help recognise the gap between notes, do the same with 4th's, 5ths and so on.

    And also semitones, ie B to Bb etc

  18. #18

    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.


  19. #19
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Meanwhile, you can cheat.

    Learn the guitar positions for the most popular chords visually, so you can cheat off the guitar player at the jam.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    Meanwhile, you can cheat.

    Learn the guitar positions for the most popular chords visually, so you can cheat off the guitar player at the jam.
    actually this is what I do . Although I wanted to learn how to do it properly . What I really want is to be able to improvise not only with scales and by experience but also with my ear.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    Meanwhile, you can cheat.

    Learn the guitar positions for the most popular chords visually, so you can cheat off the guitar player at the jam.
    Know too, in a three chord country or Bluegrass tune/song, there's a better'n 50/50 chance of changing to the right chord, just on a wild guess.

    Note too, for some reason, it sounds better to change chords late rather than early. Try just rythmically playing the root chord all the way through once on a familier tune. To me, it suprising how, it just doesn't sound all that bad. That's how i learn a tune on the fly: If i know the key, i may play on that root chord all the way though first go around. Then i may catch the last change on the next round. Then maybe the next, to last change, the next go around, and so forth.

    They always say, if you make bad change or noise, simply fix it quickly, and remember to not do it again. Clams happen. But you can shrink them to vurtually nothing. Very soon, you'll be playing along, and it won't even occur to you to make a bad change.

  22. #22
    Highly Lonesome Marty Henrickson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    Also, as you get more advanced, you will recognize the capo'd chords on guitar. For example:
    G chord - capo 2nd fret = A chord;
    C chord - capo 2nd fret = D chord;
    D chord - capo 2nd fret = E chord; etc, etc.....
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  23. #23
    Horton River NWT Rob Gerety's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't find a way to improve my ear.

    There is a terrific ear training program out there by Matt Glazer. Very detailed systematic 6 cd program.
    Rob G.
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