Plectrum position?

[P!nk]

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Hello, I have played guitar for 5 years and have holded my pick like this always. I know there is a "real" way to hold it, but it feels uncomfortable and it is impossible to strum with it. So my question is does this style hurt my progression as a mandolin/guitar player?

[Fred Keller]

Here's the way I learned and the way I teach: . I think it gives most people the best chance at good, relaxed approach, etc. Doesn't mean it'll work for you or that it's the only way

[JeffD]

I have seen that grip used more often with guitar than with mandolin. I don't play guitar, but having seen it so often with guitar players I suppose it works well enough for many styles of guitar playing.

The mandolin is a different animal. Its smaller, so small things make more difference. Many folks use a different pick for guitar and mandolin - so there is nothing wrong with using a different pick grip as well.

I hold my pick between my thumb and the side of the second section of my curled first finger, very close to what Mike Marshall describes. His pick is a little further out than mine, around the first finger joint.

Something like that is what I see most mandolinners do.

There are lots of things different about a mandolin, which pick grips work best among them.

[Brent Hutto]

The grip in Pink's picture doesn't have the thumb totally extended but there is still a squeezing down of the base of the thumb into the palm, combined with being most extended at the second joint. For my hand, moving into that sort of position I can feel tension and restriction of range of motion traveling up into my wrist and forearm. It also, as far as I can tell, requires arching the wrist in order to point the pick toward the strings rather than the wrist staying more parallel to the strings in the position Fred demonstrates. Again, for me this is restrictive of the freedom of my wrist to stay loose and it forces tension up into my arm.

So I couldn't play a lick that way. Even with using positions that don't add unnecessary tension I still have to be vigilant about letting it creep into my playing. Setting up in a tense, restricted geometry to start with would stall me out completely.

The idea behind the very common grip that Fred's video teaches is to start with the most anatomically neutral, relaxed and natural position of the hand and wrist. The back of the hand is very close to being in line with the top of the forearm, the thumb and fingers hang loosely with their natural slight curve (roughly half-way between wide open and making a fist) and no muscle force at all is needed to maintain that position. By placing the pick as Fred shows between side of the index finger and the side of the thumb, it is only necessary to make the slightest movement away from that neutral position to hold the pick very gently in a position that lets you play the instrument with control, speed and power. That's why it works for almost everyone and why it is superior to most other ways of holding a mandolin pick.

The drawback is, something about the pick being "sideways" seems to a beginner like it ought to be insecure. There's a certain knack to finding the exact position and perfect amount of force needed to secure the pick in that position. It is well worth spending a few days figuring out that "knack" instead of turning the pick and your hand around in a way that lets you apply far more force and leverage to it. But it is not necessary to bring such force to bear, the pick will stay in place with 1/10 the effort and tension.

[Ken_P]

I think the video Fred posted is a good overview of basic technique, as is the Mike Marshall video (they say pretty much the same thing). I have a slight disagreement about pick angles, but I think that's more of a stylistic thing, there are certainly many valid approaches to that particular topic depending on what you want to play. As far as crossing over to guitar, I try to keep my right hand technique as close as possible between the two. I find I let my fingers brush against the pick guard as a guide on guitar (this is very common) while I pick with a loosely closed fist on mandolin. The pick grip and wrist action are the same, though.

[JeffD]

I shudder to think of the young girls today that will date a man named Willy.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Fred K's clip shows what i've always thought of as the 'classic' pick grip,certainly the one i've seen illustrated in most Guitar tutors i've read. However,it just doesn't work for me. I tried it,because as i said,it's the 'classic' grip,but curling my first finger as Fred shows,tensed my wrist up too much.That could possibly be because my 60 year old tendons / wrist muscles (the age at which i took up Mandolin) aren't as flexible as they once were.
I find that placing the pick flat on the end pad of my first finger,& then placing my thumbpad over it,half covering the pick,similar to P!nk's first pic.,although my thumb doesn't cover as much of the pick,gives me great flexibility.It also extends the pick ever so slightly more towards the 'sweet spot',without me needing to move my wrist further towards the neck,with the possibility of damping the strings.
As in all things,ultimately it's what works for us as individuals,but i have to say that anything that becomes a 'classic' method,has done so because it works,but maybe not for all of us,
Ivan

[shirin]

I hold the plectrum the same way for both mandolin and guitar.

There are slight differences though because I play more tunes on mandolin and chords for guitar. For mandolin, my fingers cover the pick more to give more control and focus on individual pair of strings. I also hold the pick at an up-right angle.

For guitar, I usually play chords so I hold the plectrum loosely and closer to the edge. And I also have a flimsier pick.

It's the way I have been playing for years in many jams and festivals and no one has "corrected" me.

[Pete Summers]

Having a frozen first joint on my index finger, I am unable to curl that finger and thus I'm obliged to hold the pick in a similar fashion to the grip shown in P!nks photos. One advantage of that grip is that I have always blamed my lousy mandolin playing on it instead of any lack of musical ability.

Unfortunately for me, I saw a video of Stevie Ray Vaughn who appeared to hold the pick in that same way, so I guess my excuse won't really work any more. Oh well. I struggle on.

[Rick Lindstrom]

Pink-

When I first decided to learn the "power grip" for mandolin, it was uncomfortable and I couldn't play anything right.

Now, a ways down that road, it feels natural and right- as if there's no other way to do it. It works on the guitar really well when you finally get it too. Learning is a matter of persistence.

Also, remember that there's not really much strumming going on with a mandolin. I see it as primarily a melody instrument with a percussive second nature for backup. Guitars are for strumming. You can strum a mandolin of course, but its strengths lie elsewhere. Others will disagree strongly with this view, but it's the way I see it.

Rick

[JeffD]

It's the way I have been playing for years in many jams and festivals and no one has "corrected" me.

There's no correcting. If you sound awesome and are not in pain, nobody dare say anything!!

[JeffD]

Also, remember that there's not really much strumming going on with a mandolin. I see it as primarily a melody instrument with a percussive second nature for backup. Guitars are for strumming. You can strum a mandolin of course, but its strengths lie elsewhere.

Yea I would agree with that for the most part.