I guess the signed Loar label fell out!

[stonefingers]

$400 and climbing...

[Jim Garber]

"This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available."

[Mike Black]

Could this be one of those infamous F4 conversions? The headstock looks like an F4 flowerpot. It has the F4 neck healcap. Looks as if it's gotten a new longer neck and new top. Wasn't this a big thing to do in the 70's?

[Mike Black]

Oh, and a phony label too.

[Mike Black]

I'm not positive it's walnut, but it sure looks like it to me....

Bruce, Do you think it could be a brown stained flamed birch/maple (F4)? If you look at the top near the bass side back edge, the finish is worn off and it's a light color.

[amanco45]

You cannot sell counterfeit items on eBay, even if you say it's a fake according to their rules. They don't always enforce their own rules.

There are dozens of fake (ca 1900) early Italiano style violins on eBay at any given time. Strads, Stainer, Hopf etc.. with original looking signed label, mid 16th century date etc.. Just because they are 100 years old makes them no less fake. I would say they (eBay) nearly never enforce their own rules, at least in the violin category. You just don't see as many mando fakes so it seems to be a bigger deal.

[Spruce]

Bruce, Do you think it could be a brown stained flamed birch/maple (F4)? If you look at the top near the bass side back edge, the finish is worn off and it's a light color.

It wasn't the color that was making me think "walnut", but the look of the graining....

Yeah, it could be maple I guess....
Hard to say....

[Pete Summers]

There are dozens of fake (ca 1900) early Italiano style violins on eBay at any given time. Strads, Stainer, Hopf etc.. with original looking signed label, mid 16th century date etc.. Just because they are 100 years old makes them no less fake. I would say they (eBay) nearly never enforce their own rules, at least in the violin category. You just don't see as many mando fakes so it seems to be a bigger deal.

Faking a Gibson mandolin is a trademark violation, among other things, so it is a bigger deal than old fiddle copies of Stradivari, Stainer etc. Those old Cremona violins do not have a trademark issue, of course, so copying their design and label is simply routine in the violin trade. It's just the way the violin trade works -- and supposedly any reasonably educated fiddler knows this and takes it as a matter of course.

Not everyone does, though. Many non-fiddlers think any violin labeled "Stradivarius" is a valuable antique worth millions (re: Pawn Stars). There is no way Ebay can do anything about the way violins are marketed except deal with actual fraud when (and if) they discover it. They can't reform the violin trade.

Claiming a particular violin is an ACTUAL Stradivari made instrument when it isn't, is fraud, just as is claiming that a fake Gibson mandolin is real one. Ebay will deal with those issues if reported, in my experience. But they have to determine it's truly fraud. They are not going to do anything just because a violin label says "Antonius Stradivarius Cremonenfis, feciebat anno 1723" or whatever -- That's what most old trade violin labels say -- to claim it as fraud because of a label would mean charging every violin store or seller on the planet with fraud everyday.

If it is not a real Gibson mandolin, but claims to be, Ebay will do something about it if reported. We've all seen a number of cases of that happening.

[i-vibe]

now over 2K w 47 bids.

seller has changed the item listing to "Vintage Unknown Mandolin". a clever strategy as it absolves him of trying to pass it off as the real thing and it will no doubt appeal to a lot folks who might perhaps think they are getting a steal on the genuine article from a seller who doesn't know what he's selling.

[Spruce]

Us $5,300.01...

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

Did somebody just pay $5300 for that thing? I'm beside myself....

[i-vibe]

yikes. i know what p.t. barnum would say.

[Spruce]

Did somebody just pay $5300 for that thing? I'm beside myself....

Yep....
Here 'tis...

Bidders:19
Bids:59

Are we missing something??

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

Are we missing something??

I know what I'm missing - a boatload of cash with no place to spend..

[grassrootphilosopher]

I´d like to ask the folks that (still) monitor ebay (listings).

Would you say that in this case it is a strategy to do a shill (winning) bid to keep the people (us) from thinking that you tried to fool them with a previous faulty listing?

[Mandolin Mick]

[Andrew B. Carlson]

Someone got a pretty neat looking mandolin that's not a vintage Gibson for the price of a very nice used newer Gibson.

If one of us meets this guy at a festival jam, what will we say?

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

If one of us meets this guy at a festival jam, what will we say?

"I've got a nice vintage unsigned Loar with the label fell out that I'd like you to look at..."

[rico mando]

I'd say nice Loar and let him live in blissful happiness

[allenhopkins]

I'd say, "Can I try your mandolin?" and see if I think it was worth the $5.3K. Not that my playing level is adequate to make such a judgment...

[Bill Snyder]

Hey, the winning bidder may think he really put one over on the seller.
Like they say - You pays your money and you take your chances.

[f5loar]

no doubt a crime has been committed and the seller got off Scott free laughing all the way to the bank. However it is not the first fake Loar to change hands without question as to it's authenticity.

[Spruce]

How could somebody be ready to shell out that kind of dough on a "Loar", and not be hip to these pages...??

[barry]

Could that possibly be work from one of the early builders?....Marion Kirk, perhaps.

[Carma]

I am happy to chime in here since I am the buyer of this mystery mando. You can relax folks - no crime was committed and no fraud was perpetrated by the seller on the poor uniformed buyer (Yours Truly).

Bill Snyder (above) noticed the most important part of this listing as it relates to my purchase:
"we are very happy to correct anything that may be amiss. If you are not completely satisfied with your purchase, you may return it for a refund." I emailed the seller prior to bidding as well and he was very clear he did not know what this is, and was happy to sell it offering a full refund. He does not represent it to be an authentic Gibson mandolin, nor does he say it is not. The simple truth is that he does not know, and neither do I.

I intend to get it in hand or into the hands of a competent expert to evaluate and then either keep it or return it for a full refund as per the terms of the listing. Seemed like a no brainer to me and a fun way to find out what the heck this thing is. I'm getting more detailed photos of the beast and will post them on photobucket as soon as possible. I'm intrigued by all of the theories and conjecture about this mandolin and I look forward to reading many more as I get more photos and information posted. Is it a Lost Label Loar? I doubt it. But wouldn't it be fun if it is?

I enjoy reading these forums (Gibson, Gretsch, Mando, etc etc). They are a great source of information. But I'm always surprised at how negative people are - so often jumping to the worst conclusion, so often suspecting the worst. Being critical. Being negative.

You can all relax. No harm done here. Just a fun fishing trip.

Anyway ...

"The reward for conformity is that everyone likes you but yourself."
Rita Mae Brown