Schertler Set Up

[ryrock]

I have a Heiden F with a Schertler rescoil internally mounted that I run into a Fishman Loudbox Performer or PA system. Wondering if anyone can recommend a good EQ/DI that would enhance this low impedance PU?

[Pete Counter]

http://www.avalondesign.com/equalizr.html

[mandroid]

loud box got an effects loop? you can always use it with an EQ in the loop.
Then it doesn't need to be low impedance .. as the loop can be post Pre, and ahead of the power stage.

[ryrock]

It does have an effects loop for each channel (mic and line). However, I tend to use that loop for pedal effects as they sound better post. Can you run an EQ in line with the pedals in the effects loop? Other solutions? Do people tend to like the Schertler with an EQ or preamp such as the Tonebone?

[DrEugeneStrickland]

Hey ryrock
How much modification to the mandolin did you have to do in order to install the Resocoil?

[ryrock]

Pete,

Many people (including Chris Thile and Kym Warner) seem to like the Avalon U5 as a DI with the Schertler. Kym said its like having a blanket removed from your sound. With the AD2055 do you get both a DI and equalizer? The AD2055 is way out of my price range but the U5 is affordable. Could you just get a good, yet cheap, EQ and run it with the U5?

[ryrock]

Michael Heiden installed it when he was building it. I got lucky...

[mandroid]

I run my Dyn M thru the Mic Channel on an AC60 Roland.. straight,
Reso-coil is not a dynamic ie coil of wire , moving in relation to a magnet,
Type Mech ?

I have used a Y'ha AG stomp for acoustic Guitars, interesting Variety of reverbs.
to fill out soundboard attached pickup signal that lacks body.
It gets put in as a EFX Loop..

Low Z does not need a DI.. they are to lower the impedance of High Z Sources.. Ala Electric Guitar pickups.

[Ben Milne]

Joe meek three q
Haven't used them for a shertler specifically but this one's had a pretty solid spot on my radar for applications like this. (I do already have the twinQ 2 channel strip). It is good sounding stuff isn't as pricey as the Avalon stuff.

Both high and low z inputs, and you could use the insert point for tuner/mute etc
You should be able to use a simple TRS to XLR connector off the outputs to send to the PA.

[ryrock]

Mandroid,

You are much more technically savvy and intelligent than I (having read many of your posts:-). Is it your thought that the Schertler Resocoil is different from the Dyn M? Are they not both essentially mics? If so, should I be running it through my mic channel (which seems to sound better to me when I try it)? The nice thing about the Resocoil is that it uses a 1/4" jack so that I don't need a big hole in my mando, but rather have it come out the end pin. Thus, could I not just plug it into the 1/4" jack option on the mic channel? I seem to get plenty of volume, but can't really get good tone with the Fishman equalizer (or my buddies Roland AC for that matter). Too honky, or muffled. Would a good equalizer make the difference? Recs on brands if so?

Ben, Thanks for the info. I have not heard of Joe Meek before. Wondering if this unit would allow me to plug the Schertler into the mic channel via an adapter (since it comes out of my mando 1/4", but is essentially a mic pickup). Seems to have a nice equalizer, but I am unfamiliar with how a compression filter would benefit the sound. Any insights appreciated.

Thanks for the input.

[Perry]

It does have an effects loop for each channel (mic and line). However, I tend to use that loop for pedal effects as they sound better post. Can you run an EQ in line with the pedals in the effects loop? Other solutions? Do people tend to like the Schertler with an EQ or preamp such as the Tonebone?

Love my Schertler with the ToneBone; I have both the old Schertler and the new Resocoil. They both have similar outputs but the Resocoil sounds far superior to my ears. Clearer more natural.

The ToneBone is a thoughtful unit and at its core is a Radial DI box; quality stuff.

The ToneBone has plenty of EQ capability and is a good sounding unit right out of the box.
The Lo Cut filter is handy for instantly removing that muddy sound or you can tweak with the EQ. Having a solo boost button don't hurt either.

[Perry]

Pete,

Many people (including Chris Thile and Kym Warner) seem to like the Avalon U5 as a DI with the Schertler. Kym said its like having a blanket removed from your sound. With the AD2055 do you get both a DI and equalizer? The AD2055 is way out of my price range but the U5 is affordable. Could you just get a good, yet cheap, EQ and run it with the U5?

The U5 has a tone knob which has 6 pre-set EQ settings; you are likely to find one that works well with the Schertler. I'd be tempted to buy a U5 myself but I would miss many features of the ToneBone Pre-Z such as the mute switch and the boost knob.

I don't know about you buT I've had a sophisticated EQ/Preamp (Pendulum) and they take some time to learn.

That's why I really like the idea of the 6 preset EQ's on the U5.

If you do but a U5 please report back with your findings as to how it works with the Schertler Resocoil.

[ryrock]

Thanks Perry! I've been leaning towards the Tonebone because of all the features, especially at such a nice price point. I've been in contact with them and asked them for info regarding my set up. I got an instant reply stating that they would get one shipped to them from Schertler and beta test it. Sounds like good service to me.

Good info on the U5. I sure like the endorsements from CT and KW given that they use Schertler PUs.

I'll let you know what I do....I think many of the Schertler users (given the many similar posts) would find any anecdotal information helpful.

[mandroid]

My Mix A5 came with the Schertler C Dyn S installed, it has a conventional stereo 1/4" jack end button.

I can use either a TR/instrument, or a TRS/Balanced cable , and as the Mic channel on the AC30
has a duplex jack on it ,
I can use a 1/4" plug or an XLR plug.


I learn a lot reading on line copies of owner's manuals, then get to sound expert,
if I restate what they have written.

Ah I see [ looked it up] the resocoil is a re-labeling of the C Dyn ,
so essentially the same thing..

FWIW, a balanced cable is a Mic cable with a 3 conductor 1/4" plug,
just when you plug a 2 conductor cord in, instead,
R&S are grounded together , If the shield is separate from the signal return, ring,
then its somewhat quieter..

[Eliot Greenspan]

Perry, isn't your Schertler XLR? Are you converting using a simple converter, or a low to hi z converter? or is your resocoil install a 1/4"?

[mandroid]

Elliot, You can get either type jack. TRS 1/4", they make a panel mount XLR jack, available , too
its just a matter of the 3 wires getting soldered on..

Schertler uses a Blue Anodized aluminum piece to hang your strap on,
others make a similar thing in Nickel and Gold plate.
so you don't have to go with the blue one.

[Perry]

Perry, isn't your Schertler XLR? Are you converting using a simple converter, or a low to hi z converter? or is your resocoil install a 1/4"?

I have the old style Schertler in my MIX... 1/4". Recently I bought a C-DYN which they now call the Resocoil. The C-Dyn I bought has a 1/4". I have that installed in my Kimble A5.

My understanding is that they are not making the Resocoil with a 1/4" just with an XLR.

Supposedly the C-Dyn/Resoocoil is the same capsule as the old putty mounted Dyn-G but to my ears the new ones sound better, more clear, less honky.

The internally mounted application calls for the capsule to face the chamber rather then the putty mounted which faces the soundboard. Maybe that is what I am hearing, maybe it's the instrument.

Using the exact same set-up the DYN-G caused much more feedback then the C-Dyn.

They may have a few C-Dyns with the 1/4" left in stock.

[mandroid]

My understanding is ....

based upon ordering one, ?.. and they shipped it in that configuration?

just curious on the basis .. for claims.. offered..

[Perry]

based upon ordering one, ?.. and they shipped it in that configuration?

just curious on the basis .. for claims.. offered..

Talk to Chris the USA rep.

[mandroid]

the stick on uses the Putty ring to suction cup the contact point on the soundboard.
the Installed one is made with a flat surface to Glue it on to the soundboard .

On my A5 Mix, its easy to reach in the F hole and feel the location for the pickup
As He Sites the pickup outside the tone bar.

[ryrock]

Quick Update:

Went with the ToneBone PZ Pre and it is truly wonderful! Great box with tons of useful features. I have only used it (so far) in front of my Loudbox 130 and it completely cleaned up the sound...took the muddiness right out of the Schertler Resocoil. Markedly improved sound with a very powerful EQ that allows for limitless adjustments. Furthermore, I ran my Boss ME-50 (multiple effects) through the TBs effects loop and it really improved the sound of the pedal, while markedly reducing feedback (which is a huge issue with effects and an acoustic mandolin). Really allowed me to be heard in my jamgrass band. Thanks for all the suggestions, and thanks to Perry for the initial settings on the TB.

[Tbone]

Love my Schertler with the ToneBone; I have both the old Schertler and the new Resocoil. They both have similar outputs but the Resocoil sounds far superior to my ears. Clearer more natural.

The ToneBone is a thoughtful unit and at its core is a Radial DI box; quality stuff.

The ToneBone has plenty of EQ capability and is a good sounding unit right out of the box.
The Lo Cut filter is handy for instantly removing that muddy sound or you can tweak with the EQ. Having a solo boost button don't hurt either.

So for those of us that have an XLR schertler, can the tone bone still be used?

[mandroid]

easy to find XLR MorF TO TRS or TR MorF, adapters, .. Nutrik makes excellent ones..
then you use what ever cord works.

I got mine from parts-express.com

[Tbone]

easy to find XLR MorF TO TRS or TR MorF, adapters, .. Nutrik makes excellent ones..
then you use what ever cord works.

I got mine from parts-express.com

So does the XLR->1/4" affect the sound at all? Does it actually change the impedance from low to high? Does the impedance need to be changed? Isn't the tonebone looking for a high impedance signal?

And why doesn't anyone make pedals with xlr inputs?

[mandroid]

So does the XLR->1/4" affect the sound at all? Does it actually change the impedance from low to high?

Ones like this?
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=092-024
No.. in both regards..

And why doesn't anyone make pedals with xlr inputs?

Tiny, absolutely minute, market segment.. not sufficient money in that thin slice..

It is possible to have a tech [If you don't want to DIY] re wire the pedal..
replace 1/4" TR jacks , With 1/4" TRS jacks , AKA balanced (or stereo) cable jacks,
same wire as Mic Cables.
which keeps the minus/Cold circuit return, separate
from the Ground/shield cable braid, as it passes from input to output.

Haven't done one myself. bought or torn apart, a volume pedal,
but I expect the volume is changed, just in the Hot,+, signal lead .
so whether cold/- and ground are combined or separated should not matter .. electrically.