Pettine

[vkioulaphides]

About a year ago, I went through Bickford, Vol. I; this time, Pettine, Vol. I. At this rate, in about 192,836, 754 years I might even know how to play the mandolin...

Now, Giuseppe, cosa c'è da fa'? Sometimes I'm with you, sometimes I'm not:

I bypass the pick-grip. Pettine's notion of the thumb being parallel to the third phalanx of the index is simply too cramped for me; I'll take as open an "O" between thumb and index as I can get. Just try it both ways, looking at the tendons on the back of your hand: G.P.'s way, the tendons popping out in high tension; the "old and sloppy" way I am used to, tendons restfully invisible.

Where G.P. rings a bell (and gets unreserved cheers form yours truly) is when he writes that "[the pick] must not attack suddenly , but it must do a sort of a slow rubbing on the surface of the strings..." This is, of course, diametrical to Bickford's recommendation.

But, O, mando-brethren: that "slow rubbing" over the surface of the coupled, unison strings, IS the quintessential "warbling" sound of the mandolin! Otherwise, what's the point of double courses? And what else is tremolo, THE voice of the mandolin IMHO, if not a "slow rubbing, sped up"?

On a final doubt, for now, I simply cannot fathom why Pettine claims that "the strokes must slightly slant towards the bridge". The bridge, Giuseppe? No, no, no... I'll take perpendicular to the strings and/or, if anything, slanted AWAY from the bridge, any day!

All this (as with my Aonzo-related threads) with the obvious disclaimer that I don't claim to know any better than these great masters of the mandolin. In Plato's words, just "grasping for the truth"...

[Martin Jonas]

How gratifying to see that the old virtuosi were just as divergent on "proper" technique as current methods and players are. It seems to me that one can find some professional proponent for just about any pick grip one might mention. Victor and I have discussed this topic recently up in the Equipment forum.

As to the Pettine quote, I wonder if what he advocates is slanting the plectrum somewhat towards the bridge, rather than holding it parallel to the strings. If so, that's fairly close to what I do. I find varying the plectrum angle with my thumb to be a very easy and versatile method of varying tone (along with varying pick position on the string) and slanting towards the bridge is much easier than slanting away from the bridge. I'm only talking about a few degrees here; I wouldn't think I ever go above about 15 degrees angle between strings and the face of the plectrum. Doing so seems to introduce an element of drawing the pick slowly across the strings vaguely in the manner of a violin bow, rather than slapping them explosively.

Martin

[Bob A]

I seem to recall that Bickford recommends "polishing" the strings with the pick to execute a smooth tremolo. I've found the image helpful in smoothing my trem.

[Eugene]

I love Pettine's music and his efforts at more advanced pedagogy. I completely neglect his discussion of the basics. I just can't function if trying to emulate his plectrum grip and obscene wrist elevation.

[vkioulaphides]

[QUOTE]"...slanting towards the bridge is much easier than slanting away from the bridge..."

That, of course, goes hand-in-hand (no pun intended) with the angle at which the forearm comes in contact with the top of the mandolin: If at a significant angle to the strings (as in Martin's playing), yes, Martin's idea of the pick slanting towards the bridge comes naturally; if at virtually NO angle to the strings (as in my case), then picking perpendicularly to the strings, or ever so slightly away from the bridge is equally (if diametrically so) natural and self-evident.

I am coming to believe that technique is a "packet" of angles and correlated forces, very Archimedean, directly gravity-based... I suppose that each one of us puts his/her "packet of choice" in our shopping-cart.

[John Bertotti]

[QUOTE] "I am coming to believe that technique is a "packet" of angles and correlated forces, very Archimedean, directly gravity-based... I suppose that each one of us puts his/her "packet of choice" in our shopping-cart."
Victor that seems very perceptive. But what drives those choices? My thoughts are based off of anatomy. No two individuals have the same size or length of bones in their hands, forearms etc. To compound that variation we also have all the cartilage, ligaments, tendons and muscles join at different points on those bones. Find two people with the same length forearm and invariably the point at which the muscles joins will be different. I think our choices are based off our actual physiology, the mechanics of how we as individuals move.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING. John

[vkioulaphides]

Anatomy is certainly as good a point of departure as any, John. Still, some "conceptual" biases are too striking to ignore.

Take the "proper" posture when playing the mandolin standing:

Now, being a hack and a street-urchin of a mandolinist, I may well have done more playing standing than most around here— with a bowlback, needless to say. I, like many strolling mandolinists I have seen in my day, hold the mandolin straight in front of my chest, as if it were suspended by a strap, so that the back of the instrument, roughly where the bowl is deepest, rests against the diaphragm. I find no difficulty, no imbalance in this posture; and, to the argument "you can't play Calace's concertos this way", my simple, candid retort is "I couldn't play them ANY way."

Pettine, in diametrically opposite conceptual approach, recommends that the mandolin be held by the standing mandolinist in the same position that it is held by the sitting one: against the right loin, under the arm, quite lopsided to any "center of gravity" one might imagine.

I cannot imagine that this gross a discrepancy can be explained by anatomical differences between Pettine and his students on one side, myself and the strolling hack-pickers I am descended from; it rather strikes me as a conceptual difference.

[John Bertotti]

I imagine your absolutely correct there Victor. I suppose it is a mixture of habit and all other factors such as environment, body style, other players being emulated young which influence our ultimate choices. What works works who can argue with that. Don't eat to much today it may shift the position of the bowl for an uncomfortable playing position. John

[vkioulaphides]

John, I am happy to report that, after (and despite of) a day of conspicuous ornithological consumption, I can hold the mandolin just about the same, old way I always have.

Now, for the bad news: I sound no better, either.

Back to practice... I was stupid enough to make myself available to a couple of contractors, who have duly booked me solid with gigs all through this weekend. Argh... this mercenary existence will HAVE to come to an end some day, preferably before existence altogether runs out.

[vkioulaphides]

OK, then: Pettine, Vol. I, cover-to-cover. Next, I think I'll go through Christofaro (again); Bickford is still relatively fresh in my memory.

Any other such, "Vol. I"-type, introductory text I should look at for a comparative overview?

A couple of weeks ago, Carlo reminded me that yes, Branzoli is still in print. I searched and found the textbook circulated by a company called Carish.

Does anyone have the text that is in current circulation? I believe that Jim G. had several, slightly divergent versions of Branzoli. I also recall Eugene (?) mentioning that there are, indeed, several such versions. I forget the details...