Why the nasal singing?

[Paul Kotapish]

Allen is right about the high-and-lonesome vocal style predating Mr. Monroe--probably by centuries.

That high, clear (nasal, for want of a better term) style is certainly well documented in th earliest recordings of rural early commercial country music. Listen to any of the original Carter Family sides, for example, or some of those very early field recordings of solo balladeers, string bands with vocalists, or shape-note assemblies and you'll hear a pervasive preference for the high-and-lonesome approach.

In addition to that "nasal" approach to singing, the southern mountains and lowlands were/are filled with interesting vocal styles and techniques, including hollering, whooping, eefing, yodeling, and more.

Check out this recording (with online samples) to learn more: http://www.newworldrecords.org/album...album_id=80223

The liner notes are worth reading, too: http://www.newworldrecords.org/linernotes/80223.pdf

Agreed that it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm in the "love it" camp on this one. Give me Roscoe Holcolm, Bill Monroe, Hazel Dickens, Doc Boggs, or Tommy Jarrell every time.

[Gary Hedrick]

Willie, I agree he could sing anything he wanted. The key of B statement was during his constant needling of the hard core bluegrass of the day. Lord, he really loved to go after it. I remember the 1st time I saw the Gentlemen in 1962......I was amazed and flabergasted. I'd never seen such bluegrass. Neil Rosenberg is person who coaxed my father to see them at Indiana University. He kept telling Dad about this group and how he needed to see them. Quite a memory I have of that night.

[CES]

Twang I like unless fake. High Lonesome I like unless fake. "Nasal" I can only take in limited doses.

I used to only be able to listen to Dell for a couple of songs, but have grown to really respect his voice, and have learned to love it if for no other reason than to hear Ronnie pick!

My answer to the OP's original question is simply, "That's just how a lot of folks do it in Bluegrass." The reasons already posed by others seem sufficient to support why that's how they do it in BG...

[Ivan Kelsall]

"Nasality" was almost always part of the Trad.Folk tradition in the UK when singing Folk songs,& i could never understand why.To me it sounded 'artificial',something 'put on' for the audience.That & the singer's habit of holding a cupped hand against mouth & ear (ostensibly so they could hear themselves better) seemed ridiculous,especially when their voices were coming back at them through the PA system !.
For me,it was just 'part of the act',but something i could personally do without.Years back during the Folk boom era,Country & Western as well as Bluegrass music was going strong over here,a band called "The Hillsiders" from Liverpool were the first non-American band to play on the Grand Ole Opry. Almost all the singers in the many C & W bands over here sang with a fake American accent,i guess it was maybe to (try to) re-create the 'sound' of the original.
I had an amusing experience at the IBMA festival in '92. Me & my work's colleague whom i was over in the USA with, stayed at the Executive Inn. One morning we went down to the restaurant for breakfast & there was a very lovely young woman serving behind the food counter. When she heard me speak,she said "I sure do like your accent" - i had to explain to her in a very 'put-on' posh voice that "we don't have accents,it's you people who do". She & the lady who was with her had a good laugh at that one - that 'made my morning',
Ivan

[Bertram Henze]

I understand that high singing is expressing a certain mindset associated with Bluegrass, but only optionally. You don't have to do it just to create "that feeling". John Hartford or Elisabeth Laprelle did/do perfectly without.

This music is about people, about genuine personalities; the one thing inseparably linked to personality is voice. Therefore, sing with the voice you've got, because that's you and only that is you. Trying to be somebody else can lead to no good.

BTW here John Hartford tells his own story about where the high singing is coming from.

[Bradley]

I will go along with what others have said in that I can handle High and Lonesome if it is
natural, and being a big Stanley Brothers fan I love The Mountain voice if its real. Now Del and the Boys I love if Del is NOT singing. His voice makes me want to cut my wrists.

Being almost a middle aged guy (44)its funny seeing the older age group that was so inspired my Monroe, where they try to sing everything like Bill even if is NOT their key, you can only play a Gibson,and B was for Bluegrass !! On the flip side of that its really cool seeing the younger kids play 12,387 notes a second just like Thile, they cant find the melody but they can play all the way up to the bridge. Moving forward I hope Sierra Hull makes an impact on her generation- I think her style is riht in the middle where it needs to be.

I am in Ohio and we are playing this weeked down in the Stanley region of Eastern Ky, I am so looking forward to hearing some of the real stuff (Hopefully)

[ralph johansson]

Not sure what this thread is about; nasal is not the same as high. Take Hank Thompson or Hank Snow whose singing was extremely nasal.

And what exactly is your natural voice? Without some training most of us have a very limited range and very unsure intonation. Is that our natural voice?

As for the range of BG singing, the average male voice, a baritone, has (with some training) a range from G to g', the lower fifth of which is not really practical in Bluegrass.
The tenor comes on top of that, often with the aid of falsetto. In his early Decca days Monoe tended to sing very high, hitting those a':s with full voice; later he rarely went beyond g', using falsetto for the higher notes - presumably so as not to drown out the lead singer.

If BG lead singers were to sing lower than the range I indicated it would be very difficult to sing the part below the melody.

[Bertram Henze]

the average male voice, a baritone, has (with some training) a range from G to g', the lower fifth of which is not really practical in Bluegrass.

Training can do a lot, but I'd call the natural voice the one somebody's talking with.
Falsetto is the normal emergency exit if you need to sing high and not ruin your voice. This was very much trained in baroque music, but, let's face it, it is kind of funny. Not because the voice is strained (it isn't), but because it doesn't seem to fit the looks:

[Cheryl Watson]

I like some singer's high lonesome sound, while others get on my nerves---BAD! There is a point where it can be too radical and fake. Same thing Tree said, I love a great country singer's voice, but when it sounds too pretend and out-on, then it is a turn-off for me because it overcomes the tune and the lyrics.

When I sing country, I lean my voice that way; same with bluegrass or rock, 40's style swing, but I don't lean to the extreme. My voice is still my voice with different flavorings and dynamics. I mean, you can't sing a bluegrass song with an operatic style or it does not fit, but overdoing just about anything is not a good thing.

[Pete Martin]

I also wonder about the effect of key selection on music. I bet most experienced Bluegrass players would say a mid to high tempo song sang in the key of B has more power from the instruments than the same song in the key of G. Could easily be that the performer chooses a key with at least a little bit of idea of how the instruments sound in certain keys.

[Jeff Hildreth]

Lack of originality , lack of authenticity.

I see nasal and high singing copiests as I do "reliced" instruments.. a silly affectation.

According to some, I believe this means I just "don't get bluegrass".

[Rex Hart]

Not to get off topic, but the fab four sang all of there songs with an American accent, because that is the way they heard Chuck Berry and Elvis and Buddy Holly do it.They certainly did not have the same over pronounced accent that Peter Noone of 'erman's 'ermits did. I tend to sing the words in the same accent that I grew up listening to the original song in.

[AlanN]

Too country a voice on the bg turns me off, and vice-versa. One notable exception is on an Aubrey Haynie record, a country vocalist on a tune which has the great line "You never know when He's coming back or when you're leavin', can I get an Amen".

The guy just sounds right.

[swampy]

Both Tony and Lester sang in the range of their instrument.
Bill and Duffy sang in the range of thier instrument, (albeit the higher part). If one were to sing the melody they were playing on the mandolin, matching the pitch and key, you come off as singing high. Now, whether or not the melody originated vocally or instumentally first is another matter. I heard it mentioned that Bill favored these higher keys more as a sign of instrumental prowess than vocal.

Also the early mtn sounds mimicked the fiddle. Seriously, listen to the vibration in the voice and the instrument. Those nasally singers sound awful fiddle-like. Early bowed instruments, (such as crude fiddles) were created to mimic the human voice

Lastly, I know a lot of folks in the south that talk nasally and in a sort of high mountain dialect, it just comes out when they sing.

As for newer musicians imitating this, I'm not bothered when they get it right, but when they get it wrong I think it's kind of ridiculous, not unlike early Stones or Yardbirds trying to sound like old black men from the American south.

[mandolino maximus]

When I saw Thile/Daves live, there was a thought that maybe Daves might not be as good live. Turns out he's better live and not by toning it down, but by stepping that style up and putting himself into it. He didn't do it halfway and it absoultely rocked. Others do not rock, usually because they aren't as good and/or because they are only imitating.

Singing style is a method of distinction and a genre distinguishes itself with / consists of styles. Nobody hears Billl Monroe when they think of Nessun Dorma. (Well, now I do. Totally rad.)

Ever notice that the strongest styles always have a fair number of detractors / non-subscribers?

[JeffD]

Whoa, hang on here. What is affected, what is natural.

The whole act of singing is one huge affectation. We don't talk that way, we don't communicate ideas to each other that way, we don't tell stories to our children that way. The whole thing is a performance. And a performance is a deliberate affectation from top to bottom.

With all the things you have to "affect" just to carry a tune, a few more things, like the tembre of your voice or the accent you use, well perhaps its just all part of what you do to sing that tune. The whole point is to convey something.


That being said, I do think it is important to sound natural.

Natural, to my ears, is when it sounds effortless, without strain. When it sounds as easy and regular as the way you talk, knowing full well that there is no way that is the way you talk.

Naturalness, like sincerity, once you can fake that you have it made.

[allenhopkins]

...the singer's habit of holding a cupped hand against mouth & ear (ostensibly so they could hear themselves better) seemed ridiculous,especially when their voices were coming back at them through the PA system...

I think it was Sara Grey who described the "Ewan MacColl stereo" as having only a left speaker...

If you listen extensively to a particular musical -- vocal -- style, when you start singing in that style, you almost unconsciously imitate the sounds to which you've been listening. White blues singers adopt pronunciations and phrasing from African-American blues, non-Irish-American folkies on St. Patrick's day find a hint of brogue creeping in, and bluegrass bands from New Haven or Sacramento sound like they may come from at least the foothills of the Appalachians. It's not just an "affectation" or a "put-on," but just an attempt to re-create the music they love and want to play.

Seems there are several different questions going, including (1) "high-pitched" vs. "nasal" in terms of vocal styles -- not necessarily the same thing; (2) why do Appalachian singers use the "high lonesome" (high-pitched and nasal) vocal style; and (3) why do non-Appalachian bluegrass singers often feel the urge/need to adopt a similar style (with various degrees of success)?

One of the little sidebar oddities is listening to young singers involved in blues-influenced rock'n'roll, trying to sound like British singers who were trying to sound like Black American singers. Accents/phrasing passing through several hands.

I remember watching the excellent movie The Commitments, about a "soul" band in Dublin, Ireland. All those Irish kids trying to sound like James Brown or Percy Sledge... Would soul music work if it were sung in a "Clancy Brothers" accent? Does anyone remember the SNL sketch where Garrett Morris sings at a Hibernian Club event, and is the only one who can sing Danny Boy (I think) in a perfect "Irish tenor" voice? Ah well...

[Mandolin-Tele]

This is a great post
A few years back I was in Tennessee and I was talking to a waitress I said some of the music was just to twangy and has to thick a accent for me

and this old lady was sitting and listening at another table said "Just like old bones in a soup I eat the marrow and can't get enough of it"

How true this Lady was saying, I love this style now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSI-j...eature=related

[Mike Bunting]

This is a great post
A few years back I was in Tennessee and I was talking to a waitress I said some of the music was just to twangy and has to thick a accent for me

and this old lady was sitting and listening at another table said "Just like old bones in a soup I eat the marrow and can't get enough of it"

How true this Lady was saying, I love this style now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSI-j...eature=related

Thanks for turning me on to Elizabeth LaPrelle. Love that old mountain music. I sent that youtube to my daughter, also a Saro.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Ralph J, - "...Without some training most of us have a very limited range and very unsure intonation. Is that our natural voice ?". Yes - but that doesn't mean that our 'natural voice' can't be trained to sound better,but certain natural abilities have to be there in the first instance,you can't make a good voice out of a bad one,if you could,i'd be singing like Pavarotti.
I'm with the ''sing in your natural voice'' fraternity - artificiallity is just that. I adore the regional accents that we have in the UK & in the parts of the USA that i've visited in the past. It's one of the defining characteristics of 'who we are & where we come from'.
I got to know a very well know (& local to me), singer of traditional Lancashire (the UK county where i live) dialect songs & a writer of dialect poems,back in the late '60's. I told him once that coming from the county of Cheshire,(my 'home' county),that i didn't seem to have much of an accent.He replied - "that's because you can't hear yourself the way others do". I got a shock several years later when i had a band together. We made a demo tape for the Philips record Co.& at the end the tape recorder was left running for several minutes & recorded us talking. When i heard myself speak for the first time,it shocked me rigid !. If i hadn't recognised the words that i'd spoken,i'd never have known it was me - it sounded totally alien,nothing at all the way my speaking voice 'sounds to me' while i'm actually speaking.
I've often wondered what the impact would be on each of us,if we could sit back & 'watch our own behaviour' for a few hours - quite a sobering experience for most of us i think,
Ivan

[Bertram Henze]

When i heard myself speak for the first time,it shocked me rigid !. If i hadn't recognised the words that i'd spoken,i'd never have known it was me - it sounded totally alien,nothing at all the way my speaking voice 'sounds to me' while i'm actually speaking.

Frequent recording is the way to come to terms with that - you just get used to it. Others hear only sound that travels by air, while we hear a mixture of air/body sound conduction.
Most of us have come to terms with our own looks just because there's so many mirrors around. Recording does the same for your relationship with your voice.

Still, mirrors and recordings cannot give you a true reflection of your soul - that's where it gets really interesting. Several days away from distractions (people, TV, Mandolin Cafe), alone with yourself, can do that if you dare. If you survive that, your voice is a piece of cake.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Bertram - "..Most of us have come to terms with our own looks...". Oh !, i did that years ago,but i soon got used to wiping the smooch marks off the mirrors,
Ivan

[Paul Kotapish]

Lack of originality , lack of authenticity.

You may be right, Jeff, but for folks playing traditional music, originality is necessarily what they are going for. Part of the traditional approach is learning the stylistic details from the old masters. In fiddle music, that means studying the bowing patterns and the details of the left-hand fingering, ornaments, specifics of regional intonation, tone generation, and so forth. If you want to learn to play Round Peak style fiddle, your priorities are going to be way different from those of a classical or jazz violinist.

Same deal with any instrument--or vocal style.

Those stylistic details are just affectations or some kind of phony applique. They are part and parcel of the tradition, and learning to emulate the details of a the style is a critical step in learning any tradition--whether it means learning to play that quarter tone right between G# and A in certain A modal tunes or singing in a high, lonesome, and perhaps nasal-sounding tone.

Authenticity is a different can of worms, but singing in a traditional style is certainly no indication of lack of authenticity.

Is Del McCoury unoriginal? Perhaps. Is he inauthentic? You might have a fight on your hands over that.

What about Iris Dement? I'd argue that she's both original and authentic by any measure.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Paul K. - " What about Iris Dement ?....".Yes,what about Iris Dement indeed !. I think she's terrific & it's partially because of her 'accent' that i like her so much. Born in Arizona,re-located to California & then to Kansas - so where does her 'accent' originate or is it an amalgam of 'wherever' ?.
Re.Del McCoury - When you hear him speak,he speaks as though he was just singing 'slower',the same 'accent' is still there.So unless Del's 'putting it on' when he's speaking,for me he's 100 % authentic,
Ivan

[Wolfboy]

Tom Paley of the New Lost City Ramblers addressed some of these issues back in 1961 in the liner notes to The New Lost City Ramblers Volume 3:

"One of the problems faced by northern urban folksingers who are attempting to perform the music of the rural south with verisimilitude is the question of how close they ought to stick to their models. There is always a temptation to learn everything note for note and inflection for inflection from old recordings, but this leads down a complete blind alley from any artistic standpoint. On the other hand, if one merely learns the words and melodies and lets his own inclinations and background take over at that point, he cannot expect to achieve an authentic quality unless he is steeped in the sound he wishes to reproduce.

"We have tried to get around this problem by listening to enormous amounts of old-timey music in order to be able to sound authentic without note for note copying. At that, we sometimes find ourselves listening repeatedly to certain passages to learn some lick on one of the instruments or a particular vocal harmony.

"Closely related is the problem of regional accents. A New York accent doesn't sound right on Appalachian songs, and yet it seems that one ought not to copy the southern accent quite consciously. At least I always feel a little phoney when I put on a very obvious accent. Actually, a little bit of southern accent has rubbed off on us, and I believe that now, without sounding contrived our accents are not glaringly out of place."