Rolling your own...

[Kip Carter]

In another thread 'IV Kit Arrived'...

The Siminoff book tells you how to build a mandolin from scratch.

Okay, this is peeking my interest here so let me fill in my fabricating history a bit. Back several years ago I was very much into building telescopes from scratch; including not just the construction of tubes and mounting structures but the actual grinding of the mirrors which is a time consuming and exacting effort to say the least (well it is if you're going to do it right).

I taught myself the skills and techniques to create light weight, strong wooden tubes to house the mirrors and other hardware; as well as mirror grinding processes and optical testing technique. I made several over the course of several years and advanced the processes a bit by engineering zero stress mirror mounts and even moving into some application of carbon fiber wafer end tubes.

So I'm not intimidated by trying to do something in the workshop I haven't done before and I seem to have a natural skill at cabinetry as well as taking away from the effort a great deal of pleasure in the effort.

I had never considered 'making' an instrument but what i'm hearing in these conversations sounds like there is a much deeper pool of resources with others who are doing exactly that, and exchange information more so than the hand made telescope world.

I got out of the scope building hobby (avocation) when we moved to a home without a garage or workshop years ago. And have missed it greatly (wood working). I've considered many things that I might consider building once I put up a workshop as I really didn't want to venture back into the scope construction process as i'm getting too old to lug around scopes for star parties.

Taking all this into consideration. If one is fairly well skilled in joining wood and other cabinetry efforts; with this book (and other resources that may be available) what are the odds of someone successfully building from scratch mandolins? I'm thinking I may have stumbled on my core design consideration for a new workshop in the back yard.

Regards,
Kip...

[Jim Rowland]

Be of good cheer! The Cafe is unique in one particular. Not only will you find help and advice on every detail of building, but much of it will come from a cadre of THE BEST builders and finest people in the world...no hyperbole. They are here,and they will help you..with a genuine grace and generosity you will find no where else. With patience and attention to detail,you can produce superior instrument even,possibly,on your first try. Superior finishing techniques will come more slowly,but not from lack of encouragement and information.
Jim

[Bill Halsey]

Kip, you have the advantage of starting with a clean slate. So, if the instrument is for your own enjoyment, it may be good to first define for yourself the genre of music you wish to pursue, and the tonality that would be a good fit for it. This should help you to define the style of mandolin to build to achieve that sound. And if things work out well, you can take it along to Stellafane to entertain the others!

[Audio Artillery]

I had no woodworking skills until I started building instruments about 1.5 years ago. This year I managed to build a fairly decent first mando (well, mandocello). Plenty of good advice here, I suspect if you're clever enough to build a telescope you'll do fine.

[Rick Lindstrom]

Do yourself a favor and start with an A-model

Rick

[Kip Carter]

Since I have an A I probably would because I'm getting used to it now. But I have to build the workshop first!

[boatman]

Well, the chances are quite high that you could "successfully" build a mandolin, or guitar or whatever. The fly in the ointment is the probability that the instrument would not meet the criteria most players would consider to be good or great. I've built cabinetry for boats and am fairly fluent in wood joinery, but a luthier I'm certainly not. I've had the privilege of seeing a local guy
(aka "Sunburst") create mandolins & guitars, and the subtle skills that he brings to instrument building are those of the artist rather than the craftsman. This being said, build away, but be prepared to put together a number of instruments before gaining the nuanced skills necessary to create one of a professional grade. I've always wondered what one does with the " just OK" grade instruments that are precursors of a really good build.

[timv]

This being said, build away, but be prepared to put together a number of instruments before gaining the nuanced skills necessary to create one of a professional grade. I've always wondered what one does with the " just OK" grade instruments that are precursors of a really good build.

To quote Voltaire, "le mieux est l'ennemi du bien." I've been giving this some thought myself, but I think there really are people out there who would love to have a not-so-perfect handmade mandolin, whether as a spare or because they're just starting out or they mostly play another instrument, or they'd just appreciate having something different. Just so long as the builder isn't trying to make a living off it while learning to build and they aren't priced on par with the work of superior builders.

Of course there are instruments so badly made as to be unplayable, but there's a world of middle ground between that and the work of someone such as Sunburst.

[Kip Carter]

I would have to agree with 'Boatman' from the perspective of efforts that were considerably substandard in the finished product. However I do take a little exception to the thought that a first work necessary has to be of unusable quality.

I go back to my experience grinding mirrors for telescopes and recall that my first effort to grind an 8" mirror consumed no less than 6 months of consistent effort, study, and honing. The result was a mirror with outstanding optics that would challenge that of a mass produced telescope. Yes granted it was not nearly as good as those that were done by my more experienced piers; who did superior work in a days effort. Later I too was able to produce 10" and 12" mirrors of superior quality, in a fraction of the time.

The point I'm making is that even that first 8" was heads and shoulders above those mass produced and while the final result is going to be different for everyone, so long as the willingness not to say 'Good enough' before personal expectations are met will consistently yield results that are at or above our personal expectations. I've found this to be true of all things. Given proper focus and tensity; paired with reasonable exceptions, satisfaction is normally nothing more than a measure of the process to get you to your objective.

With that in mind with most anything you progress in skill as you gain experience. I have little doubt that any first attempt I might consider would provide a great deal of contrast with that of the masters of the art form or for that matter a later rendition of the same work given a level of experience.

But I think two things would also take come into the picture as well. First, I would likely want to keep any first work for my own personal gratification. So that one is going no where. Second, if after completing that first one I found the experience to be less than enjoyable, there isn't a chance that I'd embark on the second effort. On the other hand if I did enjoy it then the cycle of learning has begun and with each subsequent investment in effort I could expect to find improvement until such time as those increments of growth are producing diminishing returns.

Guess I'd best get that workshop crackin as this itch is getting worse the more we talk about it.

Regards,
Kip...

[SternART]

Guess I'd best get that workshop crackin as this itch is getting worse the more we talk about it. Kip...

Good place to start.......from my experience, of being friends with and ordering custom instruments from builders, luthiery isn't a science, there is some alchemy involved. A skilled, experienced builder, might create two instruments, side by side..... from apparently the same materials, and have one "special" mandolin, and one "good" mandolin as the result. What I'm saying is it could be a great hobby, trying to unlock the mysteries of building a great instrument. I think it is probably also a very challenging project, that could become addicting. If you're prepared for that.......Go for it!

[Bill Snyder]

The first mandolin I built was just a flat top mandolin of my own design and while it is not a world class instrument it is very playable and sounds much better than the factory produced, laminate, ebay special I first had.

[jlavkuli]

Kip/Kencarr,

Check the pictures in my profile. The octave mandolin was my first string instrument build. I have quite a bit of woodworking experience... including multiple sets of kitchen cabinets, grandfather clocks and windsor chairs. I am not a great musician but my OM is easy to play and sounds wonderful. I have no doubt that a great mandolin musician could find it lacking somewhere but I am thrilled with the quality. I have a friend who is a great musician and his reaction when he heard it was Wow! I got the kit from Don Kawalek. I just bought two guitar kits from him and I am bulding both at the same time. My friend who is the great musician is taking the second one and he paid up front for the kit. I am not charging him for my time. I would be willing to bet that your first try will be a great instrument, probably not a match for those produced by sklled luthiers but still better than factory products that you are likely to find in the local music store.

John L

[Bernie Daniel]

Since I have an A I probably would because I'm getting used to it now. But I have to build the workshop first!

If you do that I hope you start a string about what you bought and why -- I have space in the basement for more than the table saw, drill press and band saw but it is hard to decide how to set priorities for additional equipment. Dust control seems like the most formidable obstacle for a wood shop in you living space however.

[Kip Carter]

Bernie,
I will try to do that. I've got half my small basement that could become a workshop. The motorcycle sitting in the middle of that space is the big issue so I would have to get myself a shed setup for the bike and gardening tools that are down here.

The other half of the basement house my office, which is really an office and not a fashionable term I use for where my computer sits. I work all over the world from my little office so as you eluded to dust control will be a major factor here.

Thoughts to ponder. Nothing like being pensive on Boxing day!

Happy Boxing day all!
Kip...

[swampy]

My first build didn't look like a master model or sound like one, but it beat the pants off the imports I had at the time. By a lot. I was very pleased with the sound. A few details were noticeable , but overall a real solid, nice looking instrument that sounded great.

[Fretbear]

The quality of the kits available now from places like Stewmac and Siminoff is so high, that with a ton of care, patience and (sorry, you still need some skill) a first (or second) timer who is good with his hands and at problem solving can still yield an instrument of extremely high quality. Closest inspection of it's finish work will likely show up it's pedigree, but that doesn't mean that it can't sound amazing. I probably got lucky, but I would never part with or trade Blackie my personal instrument for any other instrument in existence or any amount of money whatsoever. I know that is a bold statement, but I wouldn't sell my arm or my kidney either, for the same reasons; they are parts of me.