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Thread: String Bending

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    Registered User Rex Hart's Avatar
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    Default String Bending

    After reading a comment on a different thread about string bending, I just realized how much I dislike string bending on a mandolin. Every time I have heard it being done, (at least in a bluegrass setting), it sounds discordant. I think the problem is that the tightness of the strings do not allow you to bend the notes to a full step or even a half a step and it just sounds cheesy. Being a former rock guitarist, I appreciate the use of string bending, especially in a blues setting, but on a mandolin not so much. Again, this is my opinion and no disrespect to those that do.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: String Bending

    Anybody that regularly bends J74s, must have quite the paws.

    Yes, for some reason, i think a slide sounds better than a bend on a mandolin.

  3. #3
    Registered User Cheryl Watson's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

    Slight bends are sometimes used with Monroe style playing, but I agree, you can't bend them up too much or it usually sounds terrible. I've heard a few exceptions to that though with a couple of great blues players. I can't do it well.

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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

    Hard to get both strings to bend exactly the same amount, so you get dissonance easily. Some of the blues mandolinists used alternative, "slack" tunings -- bass E instead of bass G, e.g. -- which may have facilitated more musical bends.
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    Default Re: String Bending

    There are some who do it convincingly - Tim O., Sam B. and Dawg - but haven't heard too many others. And seems the A string is most often the target.

    Well, then there is Tiny Moore, and Johnny Gimble, and...

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    Registered User Charley wild's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

    ......and John Duffey!

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    Registered User Jeroen's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

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    Default Re: String Bending

    As Allen said, it`s hard to bend both strings the same, I try and hit only one string of a course when I do it, it takes some practice but it`s not too hard to only hit one string, I ususally do it on an up stroke....On the mandolin break on "Shucking The Corn" I do it in lieu of using the tuners like the banjo does...Just practice it real slow and you will find it to be easier than you might think....

    Willie

  9. #9

    Default Re: String Bending

    I am a guitar player who is newish to mandolin, and quickly came to the conclusion that although I can get fairly decent bends for my crummy old ears, I shouldn't. Maybe it's the nut or tailpiece binding or maybe it's the scale, but in any event, my mandolin goes out of tune in a big hurry when I bend; slides will have to do the trick.

  10. #10
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

    I bend strings a lot, even I can't get a half-step out of it. Sometimes just the suggestion is all you need, or just pushing your riff into the atonal area is enough for the desired effect. (I'm not talking about what I do with a single string electric, a very different animal, unless someone wants to go there.) The dissonance created by bending a pair of strings is unavoidable, but not necessarily unpleasant. A lot of how successful this technique will be depends on how, when, why, and how often you use it. Like anything unusual, don't overdo it. I don't play a lot of bluegrass, and when I do I don't bend strings much, except maybe in a slower or bluesier number. But if I am playing blues or rock (and somehow not on the electric), some bending is inevitable.

    I'll have to try Willie's suggestion about playing just one string, which isn't that hard to do, just have to pay attention. BTW, I agree with the observation regarding the A string - it definitely works best there, but then, I pretty much live an the A string anyway. I wonder about whether the mentions of slides by a couple people are referring to sliding up or down a fret with a finger, or using a metal or glass slide. If it's the latter, I wish you luck. I have tried this now and then over the years, and my take on it is a little goes a long way. Literally. The short neck makes the slightest change in slide position, and I have a real hard time hitting notes on pitch. And it rally sounds shrill. But if it works for you, that's all that matters.
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    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

    I use it on boogie and blues tunes. But I don't bend them across the fretboard like I would with the electric bass. What I do is fret them harder so more string is stretched under the finger and both by the same interval. It's a pretty subtle effect but helps give more flavour to the playing, not least because of how normally it also messes with the timing of where the note comes off. Not thought about it in bluegrass or rag-time yet. I'm. Not sure There would be the space to make it work.
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    Default Re: String Bending

    Who can forget John The Duffey. His little break on Mean Mother Blues in F chord (noted out in the Tottle book) does a cool heavy bend (on the A string...), as only he could do. And he bent in tunes like Rider. Bill rarely/never bent.

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    Mano-a-Mando John McGann's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

    Every time I've tried it, the pairs go out of tune. I like microtonal music as much as the next guy, but under control, not involuntary

  14. #14
    Registered User Polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

    I'm a serial offender when it comes to string bending; in a bluegrass/celtic context it would be imho out of place, but in other styles why not? Here's an example:



    D'addario strings go microtonal (thanks, Mr McGann, that's an excellent way to describe it!) pretty fast if you abuse them that way - I use D'Orazio 115 strings, they are less "stiff" and keep their tuning better, but there are limits - a semitone works, but anything beyond and you're in the "jingle-jangle morning" for the rest of the song.
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    String-Bending Heretic mandocrucian's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

    All these "can't be done" responses bring out the Branford Marsalis in me!

    Of course it is more difficult on a double-string short scale instrument than on a guitar with a scale length almost twice as long and with single strings (and usually lighter gauge); but because you may not get it to work (for you) within a hour, "can't be done". It seems you want instant gratification without putting in the necessary time/work.

    [Originally, in the draft of this post - I discussed some 10 points/issues/considerations about bending on the mando. But after some more thought (my wife: "Don't be giving away your secrets for free."), deleted it. Sorry.]

    While I'd like to claim credit for working out the intricacies of string-bending on the mandolin all by myself, I can't, 'cause I was taught the basic fundamentals of bending from my favorite electric guitarist, Richard Thompson (in person), back in 82 or 83.

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    Registered User Jeroen's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

    Could it have been you, Niles, who once opened my eyes to how the slightest bit of vibrato or bending could help on the mandolin to make sustained notes actually sound sustained?
    In my words, and the way I use it all the time:
    The quick decay of a mandolin note suggests it's gone way before it actually is. A hardly noticeable bit of bending or vibrato will be a weehoo I'm still there on the long notes.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: String Bending

    nobody bends strings like duffey.

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    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

    Quote Originally Posted by mandocrucian View Post
    [Originally, in the draft of this post - I discussed some 10 points/issues/considerations about bending on the mando. But after some more thought (my wife: "Don't be giving away your secrets for free."), deleted it. Sorry.]
    It's not nice to tease! But then again, there is a LOT to be said for working stuff out for oneself.

    While I'd like to claim credit for working out the intricacies of string-bending on the mandolin all by myself, I can't, 'cause I was taught the basic fundamentals of bending from my favorite electric guitarist, Richard Thompson (in person), back in 82 or 83.
    Somehow this reminds me of the scene in "Chuck Berry: Hail! Hail! Rock 'n' Roll," in which Keith Richards wonders how Chuck gets that great bent note wiggle in "Oh Carol," because it starts high then bends low and up again 3-4 times. Chuck tells him he starts a fret below the note, bends it up to the note first, and then hits it, so relaxing the string brings it down, then he bends it back up again. It's simple as can be, and Chuck probably explained it a lot more easily than I did. But something that simple had been confounding Keith for a long time, and the light that went on in his head could be seen in his eyes.
    Last edited by journeybear; Dec-28-2011 at 8:10pm. Reason: gettin' my facts right
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    Registered User killerstiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

    I like to do everything on mandolin that I do on guitar!

    String bending, rakes, trills, sweep picking, finger tapping, all that good stuff!

    Anyone else with me?

  20. #20

    Default Re: String Bending

    I've been reading this thread and was agreeing with the anti benders for the most part in my mind. But my son came over today to play around and this was his first exposure to a mandolin in his life... he picked it up and in 30 seconds or so he was plunkin out little riffs and what not (disgusting the talent that boy has!)... and he was bending doing finger taps and the whole ball of wax... didn't sound too bad.

    I am a bit of a traditionalist with an adventurous streak, so I doubt I will ever emulate Hendrix on the mandolin but was interesting seeing my son do some things I've not thought of on it.
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  21. #21
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

    Quote Originally Posted by killerstiver View Post
    I like to do everything on mandolin that I do on guitar!

    String bending, rakes, trills, sweep picking, finger tapping, all that good stuff!

    Anyone else with me?
    Yep! I don't see any reason to impose limitations on what you can do with an instrument, nor accept what others say you can or can't, should or shouldn't do with it. Conventions are all good and well, as are expectations, and serve purposes, but they are so, well, conventional. And lack the fun of exceeding expectations. Just because something hasn't been done doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be done - it just hasn't been done YET. Just got to find a way how.

    Now, I can't play guitar too well - I suppose I should say "yet," but I don't see myself devoting much time to improve any time soon - so I can't quite go along with your opening statement. But I could say I like to do everything on a mandolin that most people think you can only do on a guitar. Clapton's song where he says "I've got a rock and roll heart" - about as unrocking a testament to the power of rock that there is, BTW, but that's not my point - that applies to me, but mandolin is my instrument. So my mind is kind of working on guitar grooves as well as mandolin grooves, but they come out on the mandolin. Bound to sound a bit different from the usual, both by rock standards and mandolin standards, but you know what? Vive la difference!
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  22. #22
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    Default Re: String Bending

    Just listening to the first Hot Rize album, and I'd never noticed that TO does a lot of string bending. I mean, A LOT! Seems like at least two-thirds of his solos have some bending, often subtle, but gives it that great, blues-y TO feel.
    Mitch Russell

  23. #23
    Oscar Stern s11141827's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

    Well lighter gauge strings (weather it's 4 strings, or 8 strings, something like that) do help. Well to make it work on Acoustic Mandolin w/ 8 Strings, I cut the scale length down from 13 inches to only 7 inches like a 1/32 size violin.

  24. #24
    Registered User Tom Wright's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

    I do a real bend rarely on electric, and basically never on acoustic. But it is only really possible to get a whole step if you damp one of the pair. For example, insert picking-hand ring finger between D and A pairs, which damps the uphill A string. Then bend by pushing up on the other A string. Or, pull down to bend the uphill D string.

    The rarity of an actual need for this is why I don't play 5-string. The doubled strings have a richer tone and sweeter attack.

    Mild bending for color or vibrato is another reason I prefer the doubled strings for electric. The slightest deflection or wiggle throws the pair slight out of phase, and makes it actually a little louder, temporarily. The in-and-out-of-phase makes vibrato throb.

    It is inappropriate for most traditional and classical music. But for jazz and other creative efforts a little wiggle is really useful at times.

    I can bend my .015 A a whole step on the acoustic, but the .014 on electric is of course easier. The main thing is that for a real note change, half step or more, you can only do one string. The other must be stopped.
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    Oscar Stern s11141827's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Bending

    Well lighter gauge strings (weather it's 4 strings, or 8 strings, something like that) do help. Well to make it work on Acoustic Mandolin w/ 8 Strings, I cut the scale length down from 13 inches to only 7 inches like a 1/32 size violin.

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