The price we pay.

[Jim Hilburn]

I have to vent a little. I've gotten into the habit of using Xacto #2 blades. I bought a 100 lot several years ago and I remember the seller stressing that these were the good American made ones. They are indeed great. I'm not sure how sharp surgical blades are but these have to be close.
So I finally used the last one and bought another 100 lot from Amazon. Made in China of course. Got the first one out specifically to do some pearl engraving because the old ones were great for this. The tip is bent over right out of the box and totally useless. Get out the second, same thing. Very dissapointing. And I doubt I can find a batch of the old ones now.

[Dale Ludewig]

Vent away. I'm right with you. I'm not sure which exact blade (no pun intended) you're using but I go through a box of 100 blades for my gray handled cutter in about a year between my cabinet/furniture work and instruments. The last container I got is complete crap compared to what it was a few years ago. The very little tip of the blade busts off within a minute or so. And that's one of the reasons I need them.

[resophil]

There's a thread running in the Equipment section right now entitled, "Best(cheapest) place to buy mandolin strap"

When America started equating "best" to mean the same thing as "cheapest" we were all sunk! Wal-Mart and the like have become suppliers to our "junkie" habit of needing cheap, disposable goods. Our ancestors placed much greater value on durability and quality than we do. Consequently, we have consumer-quality goods that have survived quite nicely through to the modern day. There are lots of watches and timepieces around that, although being merely consumer quality in their day (not expensive), still keep time nicely.

How many watches from this Christmas will still be keeping time in 50 years?

[sunburst]

I've been resharpening the old ones for years...

[sunburst]

When America started equating "best" to mean the same thing as "cheapest" we were all sunk!

I don't think it happened in that order.
My father, who died last year at the age of 97, always got the cheapest one. When he was growing up, first of all, they didn't have much money, but also makers of things were there to make "things", not just to make money. There was an assumption that a product was as good as the maker could make, for the money, and the cheap one was a good product, just not fancy. The cheapest one was often the best value. My Dad never quite got the message that things changed and the best value was no longer always the cheapest one, and in fact is hardly ever the cheapest one. I can only assume that there were and are many more people like him, who taught their kids to always get the cheapest one. As long as manufacturers can get people to buy cheap junk, they'll keep making it and selling it. "Cheap" used to be "no frills", now it is often "junk".

[Steve Sorensen]

Just threw out a pack of new blades which started dull and wouldn't hold an edge when I tried to sharpen them . . . because I stumbled upon an old pack of blades stashed in some art stuff from college.

What a difference ! ! !

What a terrible and sad path we are trotting down when we replace "excellent" with "cheap".

Steve

[John Gardinsky]

If you buy it cheap, you buy it twice. experienced this first hand with a Chinese pipe cutter I purchased last year. It lasted three cuts before meeting the trash can. Then I bought a Ridgid product which cost four times more but works like its supposed to. The problem is that it's getting hard to locate the quality products even if you happen to have the money to spend on them.

[Jim Hilburn]

What I don't understand is why Xacto (Elmer's) would accept a lower quality blade. Why don't they use the same process with the lower cost work force? Apple or Dell don't sell inferior stuff just because it's imported.

I sharpen too but I can never get them as good as they are right out of the box. Kind of like Flexcut chisels. I wish I could claim sharpening was one of my strong suites but it's always a struggle.
I really never expected there would be that much of a difference so I didn't specifically look for American but I see they are available still. I contacted the Amazon seller but I got this box in November and only tried them today. i'll have to see if they'll still take them back.

[Jim Garber]

I am sure that there are better made blades out there. I do not know these from Cincinnati Surgical but found them in a quick search.

[Jim Hilburn]

As a former electrician I know about Ridgid. The supply houses always had calendars with pictures of hot chicks and the quote was "Someday you'll need a Ridgid tool". But much like Stanley, Ridgid isn't what it once was. At least some of the Home Depot stuff. I guess you can still get the professional threaders and such but probably not American made.

[Dale Ludewig]

Well, at the risk of being edited by one the moderators, as we grow older, ridgid (name brand or definition) isn't necessarily what it was in days now past.

There has been some burglary in my area recently. As I look for some replacement tools for my shop, I've found that the quality isn't as good as it was 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. It may have the same name on it but it's not as well made or of the same quality material. Some made in USA, some made elsewhere. It's sad. One thing is obvious in my jaded state of mind- there are a lot of people that don't realize what quality workmanship and material is.

[Stephen Perry]

I really encourage everyone to sharpen the good stuff. I have a great box of disposable boxcutter blades I've been sharpening for years. I don't know that the new ones are bad, and I don't want to know.

The business of replacement proves so difficult. I end up continuing to use my old bandsaw and drill press. A friend of mine is buying European high-end machine tools to get what he needs for violinmaking. It's expensive stuff. I can get good knives still. The new plane blades are not so hot. I find when I'm reaching for my favorite tools that I'm reaching for worn tools my great grandfather used.

The demand for cheaper work, cheaper this, cheaper that. The nickel and diming from customers. I've decided to go back to doing law.

[Schlegel]

I can tell you that in our lab, when it comes to seriously fine blades, German is what we go for. The companies in Solingen still make high quality stuff and it's the preferred source for surgical blades. Of course, you pay $$$. There has to be a German equivalent to X-acto blades.

[Rob Grant]

Stephen wrote:
"I really encourage everyone to sharpen the good stuff. I have a great box of disposable boxcutter blades I've been sharpening for years. I don't know that the new ones are bad, and I don't want to know."

Spot bloody on... I've pretty much done the same thing with bandsaw blades. It's amazing how much you can get out of a blade if you re-sharpen and reshape a dull, "used" blade. Even a broken blade can be trimmed and silver brazed for reuse. I've actually found that they often cut better after being re-worked then when they were factory "new."

[PT66]

And not to get to political (and I'm as guilty as the next guy) but the only was to create jobs in the US is to buy made in USA. But you can't find it in many cases.

[Jim Hilburn]

To me, sharpening Exacto's defeats the point. Your either building mandolins or sharpening 20 cent blades.

[Lee Callicutt]

http://www.keystoneind.com/instrumen...er_blades.html

[barney 59]

I've bought sets of X-acto type stuff and also Dremel type stuff when I've run into them on the bargain shelf at the hardware store. They're junk and very cheap but I know they're junk. I just can't resist 132 dremel type bits for $17 or 100 x-acto knife blades in various blade shapes. Sometimes your needing to do something and there is something that you have in one of those kits that will work. Even though the quality was bad having that weird shaped thing at that given moment was worth the whole cost of the kit. I ,as a purchaser of junk, am probably somewhat responsble for the better stuff turning to junk in order to compete.
The problem really is that when your willing to pay the difference for the good stuff or you ARE paying the difference and it's no longer good. I am doing a great deal of electrical work on a house project right now and it's been a while since I had done that. I have quite a bit of horded parts that I have been using and was also buying new name brand stuff from Home Depot as well. The new stuff is junk, so I went to the electrical supply house(where the electrician gets his stuff), paid 2 to 3 times as much for their best parts and guess what? It's junk as well! I have parts that I bought maybe 5 years ago to compare and I can submit as exhibit "A" to back it up but they don't make em like they(recently) used to. The thing about the electrical stuff is that in order to sell it it has to be "UL approved" and if the old stuff met the required quality and safety requirements what has changed in the principles of electricity or safety(or in the case of knife blades ,metallurgy) that would change those standards. Or is it just simply graft? Aren't we supposed to be getting smarter and better at these things?
Once upon a time you had owners of companies and often their names were on the product. Now you have managers and holding companies that control and capitalize on those trusted brand names and what matters it seems is how much can they make today. Ridgid was mentioned above but "Ridgid", the company that made the best professional plumbing tools no longer exists. Now it is a brand name for a line of home owner quality power tools that Home Depot sells and I suspect that they own outright. Black and Decker makes a pretty good line of tools(Dewalt) but Porter - Cable makes a better line in my opinion. B&D has acquired Porter -Cable and they have already killed off some of Porter Cables best stuff. Some years ago B&D purchased Elu a Swiss tool making company that made some really great power tools and somehow they managed to make Elu disappear.( I need a switch for an Elu biscuit jointer by the way if anyone can locate one for me) I would hope that there is always going to be a need and a market for surgical steel and that someone will always be there to provide that. If I ever need surgery in the future I hope the damn blade is sharp!

[brunello97]

You are preaching to the choir, Jim. Ellen Shell's book "Cheap: The High Cost of Discount Culture" was easily the best (not cheapest) book I read last year. My German office-mate repeatedly says "I can't afford to buy cheap products" though, like many of us, he resorts to. It is a mind-set we have fallen into and Shell's book explores where it came from (and maybe where it is going.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/bo...Shapiro-t.html

Maybe Jim G is right, it takes more looking around and better selection in our purchases. There is a good resolution for the New Year! I hear you. XActo used to be pretty dependable, even surgical, and my fingers bear the scars to prove it. No more. But as someone said (so profoundly) in another thread "It's capitalism, man." That's just great.

Mick

[epicentre]

Check out the knives in Lee Valley if you have one near you. http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...30,43332,43393

That link is for a knife which takes blades which are better than razor sharp. They are thin and take a good amount of down pressure, but snap if stressed sideways. Great for fine work.

They also sell sharpening "film" for putting a razor edge on carving knives. I quit the exacto brand a long time ago.

NFI with the company.

[Willie Poole]

I cant get a hacksaw blade to cut more than two 2" pipes before it is too dull to do the job, I also had some sheet metal screws from China that when I was tightening them they broke off, not just one but three, so I now check the packages to see where they are made....They still do produce them in the US but you won`t find them at WalMart....

Willie

[Kip Carter]

Remember when the big deal at Walmart was 'MADE IN THE USA'???
Kip...

[Fretbear]

Happy New Year!
Welcome to our brave new world.......!

[allthechad]

There's a thread running in the Equipment section right now entitled, "Best(cheapest) place to buy mandolin strap"

When America started equating "best" to mean the same thing as "cheapest" we were all sunk! Wal-Mart and the like have become suppliers to our "junkie" habit of needing cheap, disposable goods. Our ancestors placed much greater value on durability and quality than we do. Consequently, we have consumer-quality goods that have survived quite nicely through to the modern day. There are lots of watches and timepieces around that, although being merely consumer quality in their day (not expensive), still keep time nicely.

How many watches from this Christmas will still be keeping time in 50 years?

I will admit I was one of the people that read that thread and was really hoping to get a good inexpensive mando strap. Not necessarily the best value or the best quality but the cheapest, but now after reading your post and a few others I'm rethinking what the VALUE of things are, not just the cost. So thanks for the wake-up call, I guess I needed it. I'll be making my own or looking into a Lakota or Bailey.

[dorenac]

I wish I could pass up on this thread but can't. As the 3rd generation of my family in the hardware business(my grandfather started in the 20's) I've watched the quality of consumables and manufacturing decline my entire 60+ years so far. For me it became very noticeable in the late 80's & early 90's when the world's largest retailer, the name begins with "W", opened up in our town. And they drove the price of goods down, down, and down. They were soon followed by Lowes, which reformatted themselves corporately in the image of Home Depot. At first as the markets changed with lower prices, consumers flocked to these places embracing the bounty at lower prices. And in time almost all of retailing and manufacturing, from building products to food to lipstick, have responded to the growing demand from the consumer for more and cheaper goods. Our hardware store has done the same to stay competitive as well as in business. But that wasn't enough. Businesses and manufacturing, to compete with one another for the growing demand, started to look off-shore for another edge. And they also started to look at consolidation, scarfing up their competitors, either to gain economies of size or eliminate the competition all together. Meanwhile the skills and pride of craftsmanship, and the knowledge of making things well and lasting, are compromised out of the process by mechanization and cheap labor overseas. And as everyone in this thread has observed, the overall quality of products is still heading South. At our hardware store we sell Pointer Brand clothing, made famous by Mike Compton and made in the USA. It doesn't compete well with the foreign made Carhartt. The latter has a emblem that consumers want to be seen wearing and the prices are lower because they're made offshore.

My sister started a small garment manufacturing business in North Carolina a few years ago. She was an executive with Burlington Industries which went belly up to the foreign competition. She is trying to prove the point that when factors of quality, very long lead times, shipping costs, administrative expenses to manage overseas manufacturing, and all the aspects of sewing products are factored into the equation, made in USA is very price competitive and a better quality value. If a consumer drives across town to save 10 cents(which they will do) then there's no hope. If a consumer needs to go shopping at 4:00am to find that incredible bargain, then you get what you want; nothing for $omething.

Going back to my grandfather. He used to say that the BEST tool is the cheapest tool. In the long run. Remember when Stanley was such a respected name? Well they are one of the biggest offshore corporations in the world and growing. They own Black & Decker, National Hardware, Baldwin Brass, Porter-Cable, Dewalt, Delta, Kwikset Locks, and on and on. One might ask oneself how much they care about quality. It could be argued it's not their primary focus as I sell these products.

Read the book "The Wheelwright's Shop", by George Sturt. Written in the first half of the twentieth century where Mr. Sturt who inherited his family's wagon and carriage business, talks of the knowledge, skill, and pride of the workmen who went from apprenticeship to master builders in that shop. And he also watches his business" decline from the forces of an economy demanding cheaper, faster, and more profit. Also the industrial revolution was in full swing.

Sorry for this rant, but one of the reasons I've found hope is watching the fantastic group of instrument builders who are proving that workmanship and quality will outlive "cheap". They are making objects that have an intrinsic value to begin with. As a release from the "stuff" I often sell at my hardware store I took up building bamboo fly rods years ago. Like the instrument builders, rod builders have a similar ethic. Maybe there's still hope!!