'24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

[terzinator]

Could be a situation, too, where she got some advice that it might be worth $250K when the market turns around (whenever that will be), so maybe the under-lock-and-key plan is only temporary.

[Canoedad]

What are the odds that someone has clear title to that instrument? Maybe some things need sorted out within the family first. Maybe we'll see that Loar on TV again. Judge Judy?

[f5loar]

Yeah now all of sudden the family cares about Grandpa who died pennyless. Before they didn't even bother to clean out his closests. And maybe the IRS watched the show too and will line up for their % handout. The mandolin sure needed a set up. Most Loar owners I know just leave them sitting out on the couch at home. I've only seen a few that kept them in safes.

[allenhopkins]

...And maybe the IRS watched the show too and will line up for their % handout...

Not sure why she'd have any tax liability, unless she were to sell it. Assume it was inherited years ago, and any inheritance tax (unlikely) was paid at that time. You don't have to pay income tax unless the mandolin generates "income..."

I think she should learn to play it. And the heck with a safe, just get a decent alarm system for the house. The show doesn't give a person's name, or tell where they live, and the Tulsa area's big enough that I assume she can't be ID'ed just from her pic on TV.

There are lots of goods equally valuable, and easier to re-sell, in the homes of any city. Hot-wiring a Lexus in someone's driveway is probably going to yield a much quicker and more certain immediate profit, than stealing a Lloyd Loar F-5 and then trying to sell it. Sadly, the most motivated potential thieves might be envious mandolin pickers!

[f5loar]

The IRS watches the show for future sale of the mandolin. Ask James Monroe about the sale of an F5 later on and how the IRS gets involved in past estate matters. Of coarse none due if they don't sell it but you can bet your bottom dollar this F5 will be sold sometime in the future. She didn't go to that show to be the next Serria Hull.

[journeybear]

Sadly, the most motivated potential thieves might be envious mandolin pickers!

Oops!

And yep - she won't be hanging onto this very long. Not when she can get a swimming pool and a new truck with all that loot, and still have enough left over for a trip to Disney World.

[allenhopkins]

Interesting tid-bits of history, though: the mandolin was bought for a pittance (though a pittance went a lot farther in the 1930's), in the hope that someone in the family would learn to play it. No one did, so it went into the closet. The owner says that her family includes musicians, but no mandolinists. Apparently none of these musicians thought to take the ol' mandolin out of the closet, string it up, and learn a chord or two. Then she hears/reads about someone finding an old Gibson mandolin that has some value, so she exhumes the Lloyd Loar and heads down to Antiques Roadshow with it. Evidently it wasn't forgotten -- they knew they had a mandolin tucked away -- but it just lay there ignored for 75 years or so. Odd, really, for a family with musicians; you'd think someone would have been curious, over the years, enough to take out the F-5 and bring it to a dealer for a look-see.

I concur that it's likely to be on the market soon. Nowhere in the interview did I hear "I'd love to hear what it sounds like." Wonder if she'll take it to Oster? Working out of Tulsa, might be more likely to hit Strings West.

Oh, and the Tulsa area's apparently no stranger to vintage instrument thievery: article. Says the thief was caught.

[Andrew B. Carlson]

I found an old gramophone in an abandoned house once. Maybe it's time to go exploring again...

[Jake Wildwood]

IU can see the dollar signs in Fred's eyes... I wonder what the rules are for appraisers on that show to contact the owners.

When I saw it in the preview glimpses for the episode I did, too, I have to admit.

[f5loar]

I saw some droll coming out his mouth and down his chin. I can't believe he didn't say "I've got a set of Gibson mandolin strings in my pocket right now, let's string this baby up and see what she will do after 80 years of sitting in a closet" Talk about ancient tones. Big Mon would be so proud. I'm still upset we didn't get a glimpse of the back.

[Rroyd]

When the investigation was going on regarding the "stolen Loar" sharing the serial number with the mandolin appearing on Roadshow, the family of the "owner" (whom we shall refer to as "Bob" for clarity in this post) was questioned regarding "Bob's" statement that the mandolin had been given to him by his father. "Bob" was apparently the black sheep of the family, as their paraphrased response was that "dad never had a mandolin like that, and if he did have, he sure as hell wouldn't have given it to "Bob." I don't know the final results, but at the time, it was being dealt with as a case of insurance fraud, and the Roadshow mandolin just happens to be the real one with the shared serial number. As mentioned earlier, the photos used in the appraisal of the mandolin involved in the fraud have disappeared, but had the Roadshow mandolin actually been the one in those photos, (as someone conjectured earlier in this thread) one would certainly assume that the damage would have been mentioned in the appraisal and would have affected the insurance value.

[mrmando]

Rroyd, thanks for weighing in. By "damage" do you mean the loose binding? Don't see any other damage on the Roadshow Loar.

[Links]

When I saw it in the preview glimpses for the episode I did, too, I have to admit.

I believe the Roadshow has very explicit rules for their appraisers regarding what they can and cannot do regarding contact with the people having their items appraised. In the past several of their appraisers have been banned from the show (for having "salted" the show with their own merchandise) and others eventually sentenced to prison for fraudulent activity. I doubt that Fred will have anything to do with the disposal of this mandolin.

Incidentally, the tax on collectibles is about 28% and not 15% that you may think would be on a long term capitol gain!

Sorry John - I just saw your answer to the question of the appaiser/apraisee relationship on another post and I am sure you are correct. I knew at some point the appraiser could become involved, as the lady that brought in a period New England game table that she had paid $20 for, sold it at auction at I believe, Sothebys. One of the Keno brothers who appraised the table at ARS, helped arrange for it to be a part of the auction.

[Rroyd]

Perhaps damage was too harsh a term, but, yes, I was referring to the binding issue. It would have taken a hands-on evaluation to determine the extent of the problem and its solution, but it certainly would have been mentioned in any appraisal.

[danb]

Hmm, re-gluing a little loose binding isn't much of a problem. I wouldn't call that damage, or even an issue. If that's all that needs to be done, we can pretty much call this one "mint" !

Looking forward to hearing more.. it's a great pleasure to see the reaction of the owner too. Everyone should be so happy to discover a mandolin, eh?

[Links]

The word "mint", IMHO, is way overused. An item is either mint or it isn't and this mandolin isn't. It looks in very nice condition from the photos, but it would be difficult ro assess the condition without seeing it in person. Like Tom, I would have liked to have seen the back. The loose binding could mean that in the 50 plus years in an Oklahoma farm house closet it could have been exposed to excessive heat, humidity (or lack of it during the winter).

[Michael H Geimer]

I just saw the episode and wondered if the Virzi remains intact, but there was no mention of it. Anyone know? Care to guess?

[almeriastrings]

Least they could do is take some mandolin lessons and learn to play "Rawhide"....

[Capt. E]

The episode featuring this F-5 played again this week. I have an on-going fantasy of my fiddle playing grandfather purchasing a Loar F-5 in Chicago at a railroad convention in the mid-1920's (he had the money and the musical interest), handed it down to me through my dad, thus inspiring me to learn to play at 10 years old or so. We got his fiddle and my sister got that to learn on (nice, but not terribly valuable instrument), but alas.... Might make for some nice detail in a novel.

[Capt. E]

IU can see the dollar signs in Fred's eyes... I wonder what the rules are for appraisers on that show to contact the owners.

The appraisers on Road Show are NEVER allowed to make any kind of offer or referral on any item appraised. That would be grounds for dismissal from the show. I wonder if Fred was able to give her his card after the filming.
As far as the IRS is concerned, wouldn't the sale be below the amount taxable for an estate?

[f5loar]

It would be impossible for us to figure the tax rate when or if that mandolin is sold. Depends mostly on the size of the Estate as probated and the tax rates after tax credits for the State it was found. Every US State has their own tax rates for Estates. I'm surprised we have not heard more about this Loar in the past 2 years since it first aired.