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Thread: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

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    Purveyor of Sunshine sgarrity's Avatar
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    Default '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    Anybody seen this yet? The fingerboard extension doesn't look right.

    http://video.pbs.org/video/2183115246

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    Registered User f5loar's Avatar
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    the fingerboard extension is correct only the binding is loose so it looks funky. If it got too hot it could cause this binding in those bended areas to turn loose. Also caused the strings to break and possible other damage like loosen the neck joints and cause cracks in the top. This one does not look to have been a bluegrass pickers Loar and does indeed look untouched since it's original owner stopped playing it 50 or more years ago. This is what the American Pickers call "Farm Fresh" or is it? The girl sure has a nice story to go with the mandolin however according to the F5Journal this F5 Loar No. 76550 signed 3/31/24 was reported stolen in 2007 from the Grand Canyon, AZ. I guess we will see how this one plays out.

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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    It looked like the binding was loose around the extension.
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    Quote Originally Posted by f5loar View Post
    the fingerboard extension is correct only the binding is loose so it looks funky. If it got too hot it could cause this binding in those bended areas to turn loose. Also caused the strings to break and possible other damage like loosen the neck joints and cause cracks in the top. This one does not look to have been a bluegrass pickers Loar and does indeed look untouched since it's original owner stopped playing it 50 or more years ago. This is what the American Pickers call "Farm Fresh" or is it? The girl sure has a nice story to go with the mandolin however according to the F5Journal this F5 Loar No. 76550 signed 3/31/24 was reported stolen in 2007 from the Grand Canyon, AZ. I guess we will see how this one plays out.
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    IIRC the Grand Canyon theft turned out to be a hoax.
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    Quote Originally Posted by f5loar View Post
    however according to the F5Journal this F5 Loar No. 76550 signed 3/31/24 was reported stolen in 2007 from the Grand Canyon, AZ. I guess we will see how this one plays out.
    Just watched it and the mandolin sure looks like a beauty. And the fact that it was stolen got me real curious about the whole thing so I went searching for it and found this old thread:

    http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...01-Stolen-loar

    And it seems to correlate to the theft announcement on the Mandolin Archives here:

    http://www.mandolinarchive.com/news.shtml

    Based on the little information I was able to glean from the thread, the instrument in the theft turns out to be a reproduction model. So maybe this one on the Antiques Roadshow is the real deal?

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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    IIRC the Grand Canyon theft turned out to be a hoax.
    Ah Martin you beat me to it

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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    Does anyone think it was undervalued at $175,000.00 ? I'm hardly an expect - I've never even held one - but with some Loars valued at $250,000 their appraisal sounded a little light. What do you think?

    Also - it bugs me about these shows that I never seem to hear anyone actually play one of the instruments that is appraised. The true of these instruments is in the tone - so why not play it for us?
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    Play it? Heck it would take some setting up on that one to do that. Strings all busted, bridge post too high, binding coming loose. I hate they didn't at least show the grains on the back. Nice close up of the labels though.
    I think his $175,000 would be what a dealer would offer if you were to consign it to a vintage dealer. They add their 15%-20% on top of the $175,000 and it gets it up to the $200,000 or more which is the price the buyer would pay. At least that's what I got out of what he said. He didn't mention going to auction either which would likely bring less in that condition. You do understand these are edited for TV show apprasials. The guy had already researched it and called someone for that price before they sat down in front of the camera. He likely sent email photos to someone like Gruhn/Mando Bros/Elderly and being a Fern Loar likely got that price as an offer from that dealer. Didn't Gruhn just sell a few weeks ago a '23 Fern Loar for $225,000 and in worse shape than this one. So do we say now it was not stolen, that it was a hoax of a fake, or an insurance scam by these owners? The numbers match so there has to be more to the story. Dan still has it listed on the cafe archives as stolen. If Dan knew otherwise he would have removed that and likely been able to post photos.

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    Registered User Jim Ferguson's Avatar
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    Fantastic discussion here one & all........what a great video & the subsequent enlightening info is great. Thanks for sharing.
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    I agree with Jim, this is a great thread and discussion.
    I'll definitely stay tuned to see how this all plays out...
    FWIW, my money is on the young woman's story being legit.
    BTW, her reaction to the appraisal was just delightful.
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    Ellis Hershman might enjoy seeing that video. He's with Heritage Insurance where many of us insure our mandolins. They were the insurer of the mandolin with that serial number that turned out bogus. I was unaware they had discovered it was a fake (the one reported stolen in 2007, not this one). Going to forward it to him. Interesting bit of news.
    Last edited by Scott Tichenor; Jan-08-2012 at 5:45pm.

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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    The appraiser is Fred Oster, who runs Vintage Instruments in Philadelphia. He always has a nice selection of vintage Gibsons, and knows his stuff. Given the lead times in TV production, the appraisal may have been done some months back, when the economy was a bit more depressed.

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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    Quote Originally Posted by barrangatan View Post
    Just watched it and the mandolin sure looks like a beauty. And the fact that it was stolen got me real curious about the whole thing so I went searching for it and found this old thread:

    http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...01-Stolen-loar

    And it seems to correlate to the theft announcement on the Mandolin Archives here:

    http://www.mandolinarchive.com/news.shtml

    Based on the little information I was able to glean from the thread, the instrument in the theft turns out to be a reproduction model. So maybe this one on the Antiques Roadshow is the real deal?
    Here is the post in the above referenced thread that states the theft was not of an actual Loar.
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    Quote Originally Posted by f5loar View Post
    So do we say now it was not stolen, that it was a hoax of a fake, or an insurance scam by these owners? The numbers match so there has to be more to the story. Dan still has it listed on the cafe archives as stolen. If Dan knew otherwise he would have removed that and likely been able to post photos.
    The Grand Canyon scammer knew enough about Loars to find a then-unreported serial number from the 3/31/24 batch, take out a policy, then report the instrument stolen.

    In the other thread, Rroyd reports that the scammer used a Loar copy to obtain a photo appraisal. So it must have been good enough to fool an expert. But do we know for sure that an actual, corporeal fake instrument existed? One could begin with a set of photos of a real Loar, doctor the serial number digitally, and have a fake that didn't even really exist. That would be very difficult to catch if the appraiser didn't recognize the photos and wasn't an expert in digital photography.

    There doesn't appear to be any connection between the scammer and the lady on Antiques Roadshow, except for the serial number.
    Last edited by mrmando; Jan-08-2012 at 7:04pm.
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    If I find out any new information from Ellis I'll check with him to see it's OK to share.

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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    To me, the on the Roadshow is totally legit, and, really looks like a nice one. Those kind of numbers should make that one surface for sale, I would think.
    Fern Loars are truly beautiful, and, of the ones that I've owned, they sound fantastic. The Virzi's in those ones really seem to work properly.
    I have never heard this scam story before, but, I would wager it has nothing to do with the young woman on the roadshow.

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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    The good news is, a very nice mandolin will soon be hitting the market, judging by the owner's response. If I am computing correctly, she stands to realize an 875,000% return on her grandfather's investment - hard to resist. The bad news is, I am in all likelihood going to have to keep on believing I am perfectly happy with my plain A pumpkin. This is still just a bit out of my price range. Unless we can work out some crazy extremely long-term payment plan.
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    I like the quote from some player (I don't remember who) about taking out a loan on a Loar that he bought rather than a house. He made it sound logical and pretty darn financially savvy.
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    nice to see Philly represent!
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    IU can see the dollar signs in Fred's eyes... I wonder what the rules are for appraisers on that show to contact the owners.
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    The bad news is, I am in all likelihood going to have to keep on believing I am perfectly happy with my plain A pumpkin. This is still just a bit out of my price range. Unless we can work out some crazy extremely long-term payment plan.

    Were I to score what turns out to be a signed Loar from a garage sale, I would sure as heck play it for a week or two, and then sell it. In my world that kind of folding money can be better spent elsewhere.

    Even if I put all the money in my MAS ATTACK war chest, I think I would ultimate have more fun ordering five or six custom mandolins from top shelf luthiers than I would being the steward of a Loar.


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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    I'm very happy with my A. Its sound suits my music very well. It has a full, resonant presence with a lot of versatility. Which is not to say I wouldn't mind having a Loar. I think I could adjust. I can see how worrying about its upkeep and security could be issues, though. And, yes, a lot more could be done with that amount of money than just buying one instrument, however nice it is. Somehow I am reminded of this old joke:

    Luke: Wish I had the money to buy an elephant.
    Lem: Why in tarnation do you want an elephant?
    Luke: I don't. I just wish I had the money.

    My feeling about the lottery is, you can't lose if you don't play. I was saying just the other day, that I've been keeping my eye on the numbers since I stopped playing, and they still haven't come in. The only difference is, I haven't been spending any more money on tickets.

    Anyway, that sure is $20 well spent. Heck, I'd even be happy to pay the list price, she said $600. I've got that right here in the coffee can under my mattress.
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    One of those rare discoveries that gives the rest of us hope, that maybe, just maybe, at that next estate auction...
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    Default Re: '24 Fern Loar on Antiques Roadshow

    Ah yes, that's Fred Oster from Vintage Instruments in Philadelphia, PA. He's right on target in all areas, and made a really nice presentation too I thought. Beautiful Loar, right in my favorite period for features too!

    His web site is worth adding to your list for vintage pieces, he's had amazing mandolins over the years.. 2 A2zs & an A4 virzi in stock right now.

    A few years back, I did have the original report of that serial as a "Stolen Loar", though serious doubts were raised about that right here on the message board. Based on what others said, it sounded like that serial number was indeed picked as one not yet documented as part of some kind of insurance scam.

    The one shown in the segment was examined by a recognized expert in the field- therefore is clearly a real one, and in very nice condition too.
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