Anyone have a Loar LM520?

[FloridaCracker]

I just bought one online so that I'd have something to play with while my Bulldog is at Kratzer's and also just to have an extra to take around in the trunk of my car. So I just got a deal on one brand new blemished one on Ebay for $345 delivered. Not a bad deal for a solid hand carved F style. If it sounds half decent I'll be pleased. I figured it was a cheap way of trying an F. My Bulldog is an A.
So do any of you have any experience with the 520? Would love to hear any feedback from you all. Thanks.
Charlie

[Folkmusician.com]

This is the leading low priced F style right now. It will probably need some setup work (unless it has been done), but other than that, these are more than up to the task. : )

[Paul Hostetter]

Don't keep it in the trunk of your car, please!

[Big Joe]

We will have one at SPBGMA.

[Paul Hostetter]

You'll have Greg Rich to go with it. Look out!

[FloridaCracker]

Well, it wont actually be kept/stored in the trunk. But it will ride there a whole lot.
Glad to hear some positive feedback about it. I'll have my local luthier do a set-up.

[Big Joe]

Paul... Do you have any good sunglasses we can borrow? You know we will need them when Greg is around! .

[P.D. Kirby]

Paul... Do you have any good sunglasses we can borrow? You know we will need them when Greg is around! .

Plaid pants and white patten leather shoes too...

[almeriastrings]

Very revealing...

On the question of the LM-520 VS I saw one for the first time last night. Just purchased. It came with an incredibly high action at the 12th fret even with the bridge on minimum height setting. I have not actually measured it yet, but looks to be close to 1/4". Obviously no setup whatsoever had been done on this one, it was straight from the factory, to the store, then to the purchaser. The store probably never even opened the box. Unfortunately, outside of the US from a specialist dealer, that is pretty much the way they come. I think a lot of buyers of low to mid-price instruments just do not appreciate how important (and more complex) a setup with mandolin can be, so they end up buying things in a totally unplayable state. The mandolin itself is fine for the price. Very plain back. A bit of figure in the sides. Finish is fairly thick, but tidier than on many. There are a couple of very high frets. Nothing that a setup won't put right.

[Paul Hostetter]

You just don't ever give up, do you?

[almeriastrings]

Pardon? I merely stated that I saw one for the first time last night, tried to accurately state what I saw, and that I thought it was fine for the price. What exactly are you wanting me to "give up" on? Making any comment at all on this particular brand? I have seen quite a few recently, (9 so far including this one) and therefore I really do not see the problem in simply reporting honesty on what I find. Here it is.






Another view of the bridge and string height:



If the site owner or mods request that I make no further comment on them, I will of course respect that decision and will say no more about them.

[Ron McMillan]

You just don't ever give up, do you?

It's a forum, Paul. You'll meet people who tend to agree with and respect whatever you say (I was one of them until a few days ago), and others whose views conflict with your own.

Almeira is persistent, but unlike many here, his views are based on quite extensive experience of this brand - at least of the instruments that make it to Europe - and those views are as deserving of space on the thread as anyone's. You have tied your flag to the 'no criticisms of The Loar welcome' mast, which, in my opinion, makes your views less interesting than any others in these threads. Normally I'd just turn the page, but you are not doing yourself or any of the rest of us any favours with this level of antagonism.

On the pictures Almeira posted: the action on that mandolin does look very high. What would the experts do here? Ensure the nut is as low as possible then take something off the base of the bridge? Just wondering....

ron

[Dave Weiss]

I played one at a festival last summer, fresh from Musician's Friend. I was able to play my version of Jethro's version of Old Joe Clark and it was recognizable (as my version). It played just fine.

[Big Joe]

I think Paul and I have seen a very good number of them also. Probably well in excess of 150, not just 9. No one wants to disregard any posters observations. However, while Almeira does say good things about them he can be a bit wearing on negatives. That does not mean they do not necessarily exist, but at times seems to go a bit over the top on pointing them out. In the particular photos we see the end of the fingerboard extension and the strings are a bit high over that, but where action is generally measured is not on the extension, but rather at the twelfth fret. That is not clearly shown, and actually it appears that the action is quite a bit lower over the solid portion of the fingerboard. That does not mean it is not high at the twelfth, but only that we don't know except by his words. I have no reason to discount his statement on that either.

What he shows and discusses on the Loar mandolins is pretty much the way nearly all mandolins are sold by dealers both in Europe and the US. It does not matter if it is a big name or an inexpensive brand, they nearly all need adjustments and setup to be adequate for players to enjoy at the fullest. This is not different from the issues we saw at Gibson when they were producing mandolins and banjos in good numbers. You don't hear much about that now because production is extremely limited and not many are in the market.

These are the same issues we had when we were Kentucky dealers and when we were dealers for other brands. Nothing new or different. Any brand can be improved with the right setup and hardware. Fortunately, the only hardware I dislike on the Loars is the bridge. Still, it can function. Just not at its optimal point. The same is true with Kentucky and Morgan Monroe and Michael Kelly and... and.... and.... etc.

We are fortunate that there are a few dealers in the US that do take care of and deliver instruments in good working order, but even here that is a minority of stores that actually sell mandolins. Almeira has spoken often of his issues. TML has contacted more than once to offer to replace his instrument and he has not responded to them. My, and I am sure Paul's, frustration is partly that he has been very well treated by Loar. They have gone out of their way to help an end user in a foreign nation have a positive relationship with the mother company. Not many compainies go to those lengths to help a customer with an issue.

I am encouraged that he has not one, but now two Loar mandolins. Maybe he is trying to be helpful rather than argumentative but it may be lost in the translation. I think had he indicated he had been contacted by the company and they have offered to help him in any way they can it may seem a bit more genuine. I have come to understand him a bit over time and see that many of the things that can cause irritation to us may just be due to a difference in basic language and culture. Many wars, including two World Wars have been fought for much the same reason. Maybe we can find ways to discuss these issues without the rancor and personal attachments that seem to rise from time to time. I will certainly try my best. Thank you.

[FloridaCracker]

Sorry, must've missed a memo.
Thanks for all the comments and views. I may have an extra CA ebony bridge if the one it comes with is unworkable. I have a seven day return period. Unlike the 48hrs during christmas I had to return the Bulldog I bought off the classifieds. I'll have Mr Jason "fancypants" Miller look it over once its here. Its supposed to be fully set-up. But if it needs any tweaking, I'll take it to my local luthier Peter Taylor in Orange City.
So- it appears that they are very capable bare bones F's that just need a bit of setup attention. I'll post pics when I get it. Bear in mind its a factory blemished model.

[Ron McMillan]

My apologies to FloridaCracker for causing the thread to take a sharp turn off-topic, though I'm still intrigued as to how a dealer would deal with action as high as it appears in that picture.

I agree with much of what Joe says (though I hazard that two World Wars might have been down to a bit more than cultural and linguistic differences ), but I also see Almeira's side of things. He's highlighting the shortcomings in multiple instruments that have gone all the way to the customer. That is a situation worthy of criticism, whether or not he personally has been offered a replacement that others in similar situations (myself included) would likely never be offered.

When my mandolin arrived, it was only good for hanging on the wall. When I complained at length about it on this forum, I was contacted by the parent company, but offered nothing more than sympathy. The blame they fixed squarely upon the Thai importer (who only brought it into the country on my request).

My attitude to this fuss has always been the same: why does the company allow a set of circumstances like this, that can (and palpably does) do serious damage to its brand's reputation?

I just put 'the loar mandolin problem' into Google, and the third response - the first two were the official The Loar webpage - pointed me straight to negative threads here on the Café. This would be less of an issue if the problems didn't exist, but they clearly do. And nobody other than the parent company is in a position to make that right.


ron

[tkdboyd]

I don't have a dog in this "fight" but for those of us who are addicted to this site and want to see closure to this issue, please whoever is wondering about factory instrument setups just read this little document from a big box store Tech Tips

When you have what I believe to be the largest distributor of musical instruments in the world make a public statement about mass produced instruments it should somewhat put this issue to rest.

I know I don't have to read the ongoing saga (or is that TML... ) but I like to read the forums and keep seeing "The Loar Wars" I think it would be good everyone one out there who is starting their musical journey to realize that if you purchase from a big box, you'll need a set up. The factory isn't going to do it.

[Dave Weiss]

But don't forget that any thread with "The Loar" in the title is a great opportunity for self promotion...

[allenhopkins]

...So- it appears that they are very capable bare bones F's that just need a bit of setup attention...

Wisdom, balance, a cool head...

Hey, what are you doing starting a "Loar mandolins" thread? This is where we let off steam, no-holds-barred, work out our underlying issues!

Seriously, thanx to Big Joe, as so often, for offering a well-thought-out, moderate perspective. Lack of factory set-up is to be expected; basic design flaws are another thing entirely. I repeat my tiresome observation that most Loar owners posting on the Cafe seem to like their instruments, whether with the original bridge or a better replacement, and that we're dealing with mid-range, Asian-factory-produced instruments that seek to be a good value for their price, not masterpieces of the luthier's art.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Big Joe - " ....he can be a bit wearing on negatives...". To need to constantly criticise 'anything',only proves that there's a REASON to have to do so.Turning a blind eye to problems won't get them solved,we all understand that. I'm 100% sure that if Almeira found a brand new 'The Loar' with a spot on set-up,he'd be the first to sound the trumpets on it !.Until then,take on board the fact that although the 'The Loars' may be good instruments when set up,the set up 'out of the box' isn't good (in all cases).It's the set-up (or lack of it) that's under criticism here,not the instrument per se. Maybe our advice to all those folk who ask what we think of the 'The Loar' instruments, is to give the guarded advice that ''they can be good,but it's up to you to set them up'',because that seems to be the case in many instances. I have to note that i haven't seen such a need for constant criticism of any other 'brand' of instrument in the 6 years that i've been on here - maybe i missed something.
From Blueron - "My attitude to this fuss has always been the same: why does the company allow a set of circumstances like this, that can (and palpably does) do serious damage to its brand's reputation ? " - Maybe they think that folk are dumb enough to keep on buying them whatever state they arrive in. That is most certainly NOT the case with all the citizens of the USA that i've met. If it was,they'd be getting the lousy products & associated crappy service (from some stores) that we get in the UK,
Ivan

[allenhopkins]

...I have to note that i haven't seen such a need for constant criticism of any other 'brand' of instrument in the 6 years that i've been on here - maybe i missed something...

No other brand has elicited the volume of criticism that Gibson has received in the six years I've been a Cafe member. Part of this is our "love/hate relationship" with the most iconic American builder of mandolins; we want them to be perfect, consistently outstanding, and, like all human endeavors, sometimes they fall short.

This critique of Loar mandolins seems to boil down to a couple of issues: poor factory set-up (or, lack of factory set-up), which, honestly, in a mid-priced Asian-factory-made instrument, shipped from China to wherever, should be of little surprise. And, possible design flaws -- some of which, like a serviceable but mediocre bridge, seem to be generally agreed upon. Others, like improper neck angle, are definitely not agreed upon.

The discussion seems unfortunately to rapidly become ad hominem, which is too bad. Exchanges along the line of, "You're a poopy-head!" "No, you're a poopy-head!" don't add greatly to our store of useful information.

Ya know, if this keeps up much longer, I may just have to buy a damn Loar, if only to get a dog in the fight... But, seriously, folks, impugning each others' motives ain't gettin' us anywhere.

[Mike Bunting]

Gibson! Why I wouldn't pay a Gibson with your pick, Mr. Poopypants!!

[wildbill1962]

I,ll have to chime in here..... I placed an order for an LM520 from a dealer that performs setups prior to shipping. When the mandolin arrived I will have to admit that to my ears it sounded great. Better than I had expected for a mandolin in this price range. I did have to send it back because the tailpiece was installed off center. Which I think should have been noticed during the setup. But thats another story.

[FloridaCracker]

My local guy doesnt charge too much for sutup so I should be good to go :-)

[wildbill1962]

My local guy doesnt charge too much for sutup so I should be good to go :-)

I think that once you have the setup done, you will be impressed with the tone of the LM520. I am just getting into the mandolins, but have played acoustic guitar for over 25 years. Play gigs just about every weekend. Classic country and some western swing music. I have never been caught up with what name is on the headstock, what I worry more about is the sound coming out of the soundhole. I have never been asked to get off the stage because I play an acoustic without a BIG name on the headstock. Everyone has always loved the music that we play, not the brand of insturments we play. Isnt that the bottom line.

Just my 2 cents
Bill