The pogues are to ireland as ? is to scotland?

[Adam Tracksler]

Looking to find out some more contemporary/traditional scottish music. I know about the pogues (and that they are irish) was looking for a Scottish analog...

Thanks, ad

[Canoedad]

I'm not really up on that scene like I once was. But another band you should search around youtube etc, for is The Men They Couldn't Hang. Same timeframe as The Pogues when they were in their prime. Here's a taste (ignore the news clip at the beginning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z3CciyMTqA This song is about the '80s miners strike.

Ok, here's another http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzKv5gjOzTA. This one is about a 30s fascist riot in London's Cable Street.

The Pogues and "The Men" were the stuff back then. And there really weren't any others in their league. "The Men" were a little more refined, but not in a bad way.

[Jill McAuley]

Ah, I used to love The Men They Couldn't Hang! Haven't heard them in years!

Cheers,
Jill

[Canoedad]

Anyone know what kind of mandolin this is at 1:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6FEY...eature=related That thing always rang like a bell. Very unique sound.

[neil argonaut]

I've not heard the men they couldn't hang (though i've heard the name); will have to check them out;
Certainly noone has reached the level that the pogues have, the pogues are much more well known here in scotland than the men they couldn't hang.
One thing to remember about the pogues, they were part Irish, part london irish and part english, and London had a massive influence on them, with so many of their songs being about that city. Whenever I listen to them, it makes me miss Ireland and London about equally.

[Bertram Henze]

I guess this genre is quite generic and not easily pinned to this nation or that. All you need is a singer to bawl with a mean voice and some folkish-sounding instrumentation and barricades to keep the crowd off. Even the Germans can do that...

[neil argonaut]

It may be generic now, but I think when the Pogues came about it was the opposite, that one thing that contributed to their success was the fact that noone was really doing what they were, and they were significantly different from either the Irish Traditional/folk scene and the punk/post punk / new wave stuff. I suppose it's one of the things about success that it spawns lesser imitations.

[Bertram Henze]

...I suppose it's one of the things about success that it spawns lesser imitations.

So true. Another thing Germans were always good at...

[Canoedad]

You'll like this Neil ... The Pogues were playing in Finchley Park, it was about 1986, big police presence. We were all in a huge circus tent. This thing was high! Next thing you know some guy climbs the rigging with an Irish flag attached to his arse. The police are all over this and trying to get him to come down. Of course he won't. Big Irish flag dangling and this guy is up there climbing all over the place! Next thing one brave bobby decides to climb up after him. And do what? Cuff him? Who knows. First he'd have to catch him, which he can't. Anyway, Shane MacGowan is up there in full Shane form, bottle in his hand, propped up by the mic stand, belting in it out. It was insane!

Another time, my buddy and I had no tickets and there were none to be had. But we had to get in. So we watched the stage entrance for a while and figured what the heck, we have no choice, we'll have to dive through the door and run for it. We picked our spot and shot it. We didn't know where we were or what to do, we stopped in front of the first door that said "Dressing Room" but I was afraid to go through it. Who knows what the reaction would have been. We ran further and hid behind some stacked up tables and chairs. We didn't know what we would do next but we figured we'd wait for the concert to start and figure it out from there. After we were back there for about 15 minutes a big Jamaican peers back there and finds us. I guess it took that long to find us. Anyway, the jig was up. Busted. Oh well, we tried. What does the bouncer do? Dumps us out into the crowd right in front of the stage! What times.

Hey have you seen that Shane used some of his Subaru money to buy a set of teeth? Good for him.

[Loretta Callahan]

Closest I could come, without mentioning Craig Ferguson ... wait. I just did. Is Shooglenifty

[mrmando]

Hey, here's what looks like an Eccleshall e-mando in a Men They Couldn't Hang video:

Who's the mandolinist?

[JonZ]

My kids, 11 and 13 year old Californians, love the Pogues. They even wrote their own version of "Dirty Old Town" about our fair city.

[Dan Hulse]

Old Blind Dogs, and for a touch more trad Heritage....not quite the Pogues, but Scottish I believe nonetheless.

[John McCoy]

The Corries, maybe??????????????

== John ==

[mrmando]

Anyone know what kind of mandolin this is at 1:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6FEY...eature=related That thing always rang like a bell. Very unique sound.

That's an Asian-made acoustic/electric mando with a plastic back. In the USA it's sold under the Crafter brand. In the UK it'll most likely have a different brand name, possibly Ozark.

Back in the day, though, it appears that Simmonds played a solidbody by Chris Eccleshall, which is infinitely more interesting.

[neil argonaut]

Canoedad, sounds good, I was a bit young to catch the pogues at their peak, and saw them first with Joe Strummer replacing shane, but have been lucky enough to catch them with shane and shane without them a few times over the last decade.

[Canoedad]

That's an Asian-made acoustic/electric mando with a plastic back. In the USA it's sold under the Crafter brand. In the UK it'll most likely have a different brand name, possibly Ozark.

Back in the day, though, it appears that Simmonds played a solidbody by Chris Eccleshall, which is infinitely more interesting.

Thanks. I didn't realize it was a different mando than he played back in the day. The one in the youtube video mrmando posted must the solidbody. That mandolin was a big part of the sound that made The Men They Couldn't Hang. Thanks for posting that video mrmando. Never saw that one.

[Charlieshafer]

I don't think there really is a Scots version of the Pogues. The Pogues are Shane McGowan, and no one has quite the ...er...attitude of Shane, either in beverage consumption or lack of teeth. Shane's writing and arranging are genius, and while there are a few "punkish" trad. bands, none of them rose to the sheer lunacy and self-destructive behavior of Shane. An early Scots trad/modern band is the Easy Club, and while they were groundbreaking, they really didn't have that dangerous aspect to them.

[Shelagh Moore]

Perhaps the Nyah Fearties were the closest I know of...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvCKF...eature=related

[Bertram Henze]

I don't think there really is a Scots version of the Pogues. The Pogues are Shane McGowan, and no one has quite the ...er...attitude of Shane, either in beverage consumption or lack of teeth. Shane's writing and arranging are genius, and while there are a few "punkish" trad. bands, none of them rose to the sheer lunacy and self-destructive behavior of Shane. An early Scots trad/modern band is the Easy Club, and while they were groundbreaking, they really didn't have that dangerous aspect to them.

I agree that everything copying the style of the Pogues is just that - a copy. To answer the question in a wider sense, maybe we should take a step back and see how the concept of Irish folk punk works on a more abstract level. The recipe seemed to be:

1 - take an existing stereotype of Irish behavior (here building on ground prepared by the Dubliners, among others)
2 - take an existing musical genre from Ireland
3 - mix it with another musical genre that expresses abovementioned image more directly.

One similar solution for Scotland would probably sound completely different. Here is one suggestion:
1 - the stereotype: hardy warriors, the stench of blood, sweat and testosterone
2 - the existing musical genre: pipes and drums marching bands
3 - the other musical genre: Heavy Metal

Whatever that results in, i guess it is a mixture of Bannockburn and Kiss, or "Tossin' the Guitar"

Another example approach (though too decent) would be this interpretation of a Man o War song.

[Wolfboy]

One similar solution for Scotland would probably sound completely different. Here is one suggestion:
1 - the stereotype: hardy warriors, the stench of blood, sweat and testosterone
2 - the existing musical genre: pipes and drums marching bands
3 - the other musical genre: Heavy Metal

Wolfstone, maybe? Or The Tannahill Weavers?

[Bertram Henze]

Wolfstone is not bad. My thoughts were more along the line of some of the things Jethro Tull used to do, but even that is not 100%.

I found out, by the way, that apparently the style of the Pogues has been discussed much earlier than we all thought:

Some years ago I was at a Masonic concert in a Connaught town. A man from London, where he had lived, perhaps, in some coterie where good taste protested against modern taste, sang a couple of old English folk-songs, but all the other songs were vulgar and modern. Instead of an ancient tradition, one found the short-lived conventions of this age, the insincerity, the shallow cleverness, the reeking vulgarity. I had never been at a concert of this kind before, and listened in astonishment. I knew many of the people there, but it had never occurred to me that they had tastes harder to forgive than any vice. Presently somebody sang about whiskey and shillelaghs and Donnybrook fair, and all those Irish men and women applauded. I waited till my voice could be heard, and hissed loudly.
- W.B. Yeats –An Claidheamh Soluis, 1901.

[Jill McAuley]

I never found the Pogues "vulgar" - they had a background in the original punk scene, liked irish trad music and liked a drink - three things that at various moments in my life I've had a lot of time for meself! They weren't a novelty band (though many who tried to hitch a lift on their coat tails were and are) The lyrics Shane wrote were head and shoulders above what all the pretenders to his throne have spewed out.

Cheers,
Jill

[Jock]

The lyrics Shane wrote were head and shoulders above what all the pretenders to his throne have spewed out.

Cheers,
Jill

Aye'd agree with that.

Here's a classic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjEIP6otc4Y

[Dagger Gordon]

While Shooglenifty certainly have built up a loyal following, they are an instrumental outfit. The Pogues are (to my mind) about their songs and Shane's own strong image.
I would say that the likes of the Tannahill Weavers and Old Blind Dogs are basically too folky to fit what you are describing.

So although they aren't really from the same mould as the Pogues at all, probably the closest I can think of to your question is Run Rig.

Here is some footage of their classic Loch Lomond gig in 1991.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzQ1pNfbe3Q

You could also make a good case for the Proclaimers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69AvNm8zubo