How many pieces in your band

[stetson]

For those of us that play regular gigs in a band, how many pieces do you have.

In mine we have two acoustic guitars, one electric guitar, an electric base, percussion, a keyboard player and me on mandolin or once in a while, violin.

The two acoustic guitarists do the singing with 2 female vocalists as well.

Now...

They want to add a second keyboard player, or a pianist, since he wouldn't be playing electric keyboard like the first player. But to me this seems too much. I know some bands use more than one percussionist, of course more than one guitar is standard and I have seen more than one keyboard. But it really seems over the top for a small band to have an electric keyboard and a piano. Honestly I think the piano will over power everything else.

BTW... our drums are electronic too so the volume can be controlled.

I also think a piano will muddy the waters to the point where you can't hear individual parts played by the electric guitar or me on mandolin.

What is your opinion and how many pieces are in your band?

[catmandu2]

Well the music you're playing certainly would have tremendous impact on your choice of instrumentation, I would think. If you're playing big arrangements in an r&b band, for example, one of the keyboards could handle the horn lines. Skankin keyboards In a reggae band are piano and organ (Albeit commonly played by one player) but the music often comprises a third or even fourth synth part... Salsa and Latin bands may have multiple keyboards. That' a lot of mouths to feed you have in your band there. Whomever is doing your arranging may be challenged to devise interesting parts for everyone...but some bands need a lot of elements...frank Zappa often used two electric guitars and two keyboards...and more

So it depends what you're doing, right? If there are parts for each player and folks don't get too bored, big bands are great fun ( but full band rehearsals are often challenging to schedule). When i played sax in band orchestras i was often bored. I have more fun in bands where i can do more...i like my current band -- a four-piece where I get to play all the fun stuff--pedal steel, mandolin, accordian, keyboard..

[Markus]

Depends on the music.

I play bluegrass with a fiddle, guitar, banjo, bass and dobro.

I play blues rock with an acoustic and electric guitar.

Played with more folks ... it's a lot simpler to have less people in the band [though more musical work by a long shot].

[foldedpath]

I've been playing in small groups the last couple of years -- duos and trios, currently one of each. In a small group there is more money per band member, and rehearsals and gigs are easier to schedule. I've seen larger bands fall apart just because they had trouble getting everyone together for rehearsals, or having everyone free for the date of a gig.

Also, the fewer the band members, the less potential for band drama. At my advanced geezer age, I have a fairly low tolerance for band drama that I used to put up with, as a kid. It's just easier to find one or two simpatico people to play music with, than to keep a six-piece band together.

On the other hand, the music we're playing works in duo or trio format. We couldn't sell this as a full-up Bluegrass band, Cajun dance band, Rock cover band, or anything else with an expected minimum number of band members.

[Rob Meldrum]

I joined up with two other guitar players nearly two years ago. Last summer we let a few more people join our jams and right now we have four guitar players, with one of us always on bass, a drummer, a harmonica player, and the lone female is a singer. One other woman has dropped in a couple of times, but she's not comfortable harmonizing, at least not yet. I play 12 string guitar on most songs, mandolin on three (and counting). Just when I think we have one guitar too many we'll rework a song and have a bass, a guitar, a 12 string and a ukulele and things sound pretty interesting.

Our weekly sessions are a blast, and we are all becoming better musicians as a result. One of the highlights for me is when three of us get an amazing harmony line going, singing over the instruments, and everyone is in the same groove. The hardest part is finding songs that work with that many people, and letting go of some songs that sound better with just two or three people. But that just means finding a time to get together with a duo or trio to work those songs.

Now that we have found a great harmonica player, it feels like there is a hole in most songs when he isn't there. Losing one guitar doesn't affect the sound at all, and it doesn't matter which guitar. Most of the others love the drums, but I have to admit that I find them to be too darned loud most of the time. When we don't have the bass going most of the songs lose something.

Sorry for the long response. Short answer, in summary, is seven people, roughly five pieces.

[allenhopkins]

Love & Knishes: trio with singer/guitarist, fiddler, and me on mandolin, mandola, 5-string banjo and concertina. Sometimes a bit of mandocello and baritone concertina, occasionally harmonica, kazoo (!).

Innisfree: quartet, with hammer dulcimer, accordion, mandolin-banjo, and me on octave mandolin, mandola, concertina, a bit of mandocello and/or cello banjo. Hammer dulcimer and accordion players take turns on rhythm guitar.

Flint Hill Folk: well, there are eight of us currently, but we almost never perform en masse. Usually varies between a trio and a quintet, with whatever members are available. Three fiddlers, hammer dulcimer player, three female singers who also play flute or whistle, singer/guitarist, and me playing mandolin, mandola, Autoharp, harmonica, concertina, guitar, 5-string banjo, bass fiddle as needed. Fiddlers all "double," so we also have accordion (diatonic button variety), keyboards (often a small pump organ), harp, and our choice of seven of us who can play guitar, four who can play banjo. We put together ensembles as needed. Last Saturday we did a dance with four of us: caller also playing accordion and a bit of fiddle, hammer dulcimer player, another member doubling guitar and flute/whistle, I "tripling" guitar, mandocello, tenor banjo. Our repertoire is basically 19th-century folk, dance and popular music, often performed in costume.

Being a multi-instrumentalist means taking different roles for different gigs, and in different ensembles. I can play about 12-15 instruments with passable competence, so I'm often picking up whatever the occasion demands. I do a lot of back-up for singers, and the singers are usually guitarists, so I'm packing mandolin, 5-string banjo, Dobro, harmonica etc. to a lot of gigs. Working as a solo, I usually play a bit of ukulele, but seldom in one of the groups.

I often put together ad hoc groups for specific events, usually 4-6 people, and plan around the skills and instrumental capabilities of my co-performers. This August Flint Hill Folk do a concert at a local state park, and the people available, besides me, are three women who all play flute, two of whom play guitar. It'll be fun to put together that set list -- flute choir? I get a real kick out of working out a way to get the best from varied lineups.

[journeybear]

There are a few important pieces of information missing that makes a good answer nearly impossible. What kind of music do you play? Will it be better served by the addition of another keyboard? Are you playing professionally, and if so, will dividing the pay by one more part put a financial strain on everyone else? By the way, you already have seven pieces - assuming the two vocalists are included in that count - so I would not call this a small band any more. You left that behind one or two pieces ago.

Two keyboards produce a lot of notes - potentially ten each - and if not arranged thoughtfully could indeed easily muddy things. The Band were perhaps the best-known band featuring two keyboards, typically piano and organ, though Richard Manuel stayed on piano mostly while Garth Hudson got into synthesizers, and would also play sax occasionally. They worked hard on their arrangements so they didn't step on each other or produce mush. Also, they were only five pieces. They had a full sound, achieved as much by arranging their instruments as by being so talented. And this is with a maximum of 30 notes at any time. Your band right now can produce ... let's see ... 36, and you're talking about going to 46. It just seems unwieldy. If you go with this, pay attention to spreading the instruments' parts along the audio spectrum. This will help avoid mid-range muddiness. In fact, every band should put in some time on arrangements and dynamics. You don't want to have everyone banging away and hope something worth hearing will stand out above the din.

Here are my current three bands. Generally speaking I play lead and sing harmony vocals, the Eric Clapton role in Cream:

The Real Malloys (trio) - Rock, folk, country, pop, blues, swing - in a word, I suppose Americana, but we ain't that country - on acoustic guitar and vocals, electric and acoustic mandolin, bass, with occasional harmonies from us other guys. This is exactly what I mean by the audio spectrum, the same instrumentation as The Band Perry (who even stand on stage high end to low end).

Southernmost Magnolia Cajun Band (quartet) - Cajun, country, bluegrass, a bit of pop, on acoustic guitar and vocals, acoustic mandolin, bass, and usually one more - it has been fiddle but this year we have had pedal steel instead of the rather stiff fiddler we have had, which is a vast improvement and skewed our repertoire toward country. I sing some harmony and the occasional song, to give the lead singer a break now and then.

Bi-Polar Bear (duo) - Original folk and ragtime, swing standards, folk, some country and rock leanings, on guitar, accordion, ukulele, and vocals, and acoustic mandolin and harmonies.

[Chip Booth]

In general I try to live by the rule "less is more". A highly talented and focused group of players who can arrange 6 or 7 or more parts is an amazing sound, with each person contributing only what is needed and not being in the way of each other. However this is rarely found on any level but the pros. Many local bands seem to favour the "more the merrier" approach and things turn into a big 'ol cluster real fast. I have seen several small local ensembles that were reasonable sounding be ruined by this approach.

Piano players can often be the worst offenders of playing too much. I don't mean to belittle pianists, it's just that in my experience the average pianist has learned to play solo, playing all the parts, including melody, and have not played with others on a regular basis so they often have timing issues. Teaching a traditional pianist to become a member of an ensemble can be a large task.

[Keith Witty]

Two... and BarbedWitter will one day take the nation by storm...

[catmandu2]

Less-is-more should certainly be considered (always). What Chip mentions might be worth reiterating: generally, for effectiveness, the larger the ensemble--the more challenging the task, and the more important it is to have good arrangements

Whenever I see a band with two instruments of the same type or voice (two guitars for example), I'm always hyper-aware to discern if there's more going on than just two instruments playing the same thing (too often cacophony ensues--a la many jam-type situations)...two unison singers, for example. Usually, you want to avoid this kind of thing--for my money, if there is more than one player, I like to hear harmony.

But if you're just having fun, well, have fun. But for musical efficacy...the musical needs typically dictate instrumentation. I've seen some ensembles where an "extra" (extraneous) player exists, and they are typically there for social or reasons other than musical necessity (when we were kids, it was often the guy who owned the PA)

[Tim2723]

I've been half of a duo for 15 years now with an occasional third member. Like FP above, I find the difficulties expand exponentially with the number of band members. Two is ideal. You either agree to do something or you don't. With three or more members somebody is always out-voted and that's when the drama starts.

[Gardog]

Currently ONE.... Marriage and young children have recently taken my band ventures from 5-6 nights a week to 0 nights a week. Hope to be reborn in time when my schedule is a bit more forgiving!

[woodwizard]

Well ... there are (6) of us in my Old-time band. We devide the gig money up equally so now you know we're not in it for the money Wait a minute ... I heard you could make 10's of dollars playing OT ... well into the double digits We all have very nice instruments...(2) fiddle players, (1) guitar, (1) clawhammer banjo, (1) upright bass and me on mandolin. The Mountain Boomers Old-time String Band

[catmandu2]

Currently ONE.... Marriage and young children have recently taken my band ventures from 5-6 nights a week to 0 nights a week. Hope to be reborn in time when my schedule is a bit more forgiving!

Well it may return someday...I had a similar experience in that I often played in as many as 5 bands concurrently (different styles and instruments in each...don't necessarily recommend it, a little crazy..), then acquired some kids and "retired" from the scene. Playing with family and friends alone is fun too, though...and vastly preferable to playing in clubs, IME

[stetson]

There are a few important pieces of information missing that makes a good answer nearly impossible. What kind of music do you play? Will it be better served by the addition of another keyboard? Are you playing professionally, and if so, will dividing the pay by one more part put a financial strain on everyone else? By the way, you already have seven pieces - assuming the two vocalists are included in that count - so I would not call this a small band any more. You left that behind one or two pieces ago.

We play mainly contemporary Christian music with a few that lean more to a bluegrass feel.

This last week the keyboard and piano basically just played chords, both pretty much playing the same thing. Playing the same thing as well as not being able to control the volume on a piano (other than by the pianist) is why I don't think we need it .

[catmandu2]

We play mainly contemporary Christian music...

I took a job one Sunday filling in on drums for such an ensemble: they wanted "more cymbals," etc. The priority there was not as much musical necessity as it was folks joining together to make a joyful noise (or something like that). Isn't this kind of the agenda here? More like an old-time get-together where unison playing by as many instruments as possible is acceptable..

Not my area of expertise, and my tenure lasted only one day, but I could put on my resume, "rock drummer for Christian praise/worship, etc."

[Laird]

Banjo, mando, bass, guitar, fiddle, harmonica, washboard (when we're all there, which is rare)--so seven at the max, usually four or five.

[mrmando]

Seven pieces in my band. Until we smash the banjo. Then there are six big pieces and a whole bunch of little ones.

[P.D. Kirby]

Why does everybody hafta be hating on the Banjo player? Banjo players need love too... Is it because we get all the girls?

[Laird]

Why does everybody hafta be hating on the Banjo player?

I'm sure I'll catch grief for saying this (and despite the fact that I enjoy all the good-natured teasing), but I love playing with a good banjo picker. It adds a tone that just takes the music to another place.

[Mandobart]

I play solo, in duos and sometimes up to five. A lot of places we play it's hard to fit five people and their gear. We couldn't fit a piano or keyboard in most of these venues with drums, lead guitar, vocalist/guitar, mandolin, bass (we're all somewhat base, I guess).

[catmandu2]

btw I'm just kidding about putting that down on my resume

[Eddie Sheehy]

Three. Between us there ain't an instrument that can't be played... one of us even sings...

[Beanzy]

Seriously AwEful Sinfonia = Orchestra : up to 35 members now. I think the criteria there is if it fits in the door you're in. We've got it all from the Tuba /Bass end up through the rest to the bowed psaltry. Includes keyboards, but she'd only bring the didgereedoo if we didn't let her play that, so the keyboard stays.

MOOD = Mandolin Orchestra : 29 last count This group has a super balanced sound from a bass banjo up to the piccolo mandolin.

Cornwall family Orchestra; We're about to combine with the Devon Family Orchestra and the BBC Concert orchestra for one performance (2,500 sold out!) and that'll be approx 200 performers. But the piece has been written for the occasion so balance isn't a problem.

The jams are the fun bit though & I don't think I'll go for bands again for a while, just because of the practice time and my being away from home a good bit.

I think if you consider yourselves a church ensemble / orchestra in the making, then you'll be able to incorporate the extra keyboards. Have you though of using one player as harpsichord for continuo playing? it can be really effective..... but your guitarists would have to become more than chord strummers if they're not to get lost in the picking. they'd need to play alternative rythm and chords but there'd be great opportunity for good runs up and down the fingerboard.

You'll need to get quite tight with arranging for the group so there'll be more head-busting and less room for improvising if you want things to sound tight and not just a big mush of sound. Also remember the gaps are important and there's no harm in giving groups of instruments/singers a bunch of bars rest to make their re-entry more effective. If it's done in a properly collaborative way more players will mean more chance to be creative with the sound.

[Dave Schimming]

Miller's Mule has 6 members: bluegrass banjo - upright bass - mandolin - dobro/resonator guitar - fiddle/guitar - guitar/(+ some clawhammer/mando). 4 of us sing or add harmony.