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  1. #1
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    Default scales

    Hey all! I have been playing guitar for about 14 years, dont know a whole lot about theory though. I bought a mandolin recently and i have been practicing for at least 10-15 hours a week and i am progressing very well.

    However i can only find a few scales here and there online. I have the G pentatonic down pretty well but thats about it.

    Any books i can buy or web links would be greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
    Registered User geeterpicker's Avatar
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    Default Re: scales

    The good thing about mando is that the scale patterns are consistent, whereas on guitar they are not. Since you have the G pentatonic down, have you considered trying it in all the other keys?
    Brian

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    Registered User stratman62's Avatar
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    Default Re: scales

    Link on the cafe homepage to jazzmando. Find the FFcP and have at it.
    dwight in NC

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    Registered User John Gardinsky's Avatar
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    Default Re: scales


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    Default Re: scales

    Quote Originally Posted by geeterpicker View Post
    The good thing about mando is that the scale patterns are consistent, whereas on guitar they are not. Since you have the G pentatonic down, have you considered trying it in all the other keys?

    so basically i can just move the same pattern up the neck and that will work?

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    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: scales

    That's the mandolinists and violinists dirty little secret.
    It's why we always love calling tunes in Bb.
    If anyone tells you it's "because it sits really well with most male voices" that's just the cover story.
    It's because it messes with the guitarist's head.

    So learn the major chord pattern and start it off on the root note, then just pick another root note and you're away in that key.
    For improvising just use the pentatonic scale to play it safe until you get confident.
    Then learn the minor, blues patterns etc. and while it's not the whole game, you've just learned a whole chunk of ways to improvise on a mandolin.
    Eoin



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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: scales

    From Beanzy - "It's why we always love calling tunes in Bb.". Don't come around here with your darned Bb !!!!,
    Ivan
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  8. #8

    Default Re: scales

    I would definitely look into the FFcP on the jazzmando website. I've been working the patterns for only a few days and already find myself able to pick out a root note and do some simple improv on any of the scale patterns very quickly and intuitively.

  9. #9

    Default Re: scales

    One thing I finally learned, about guitar or mandolin, is that a key scale always has the same relative intervals between notes. It just starts on a different note. Even with the natural minor keys the intervals are the same. They just start on the sixth of the relative major scale. What this means is that there is a single pattern (for each instrument), twelve frets long, that is identical for all major and natural minor keys. There are two sets of root note patterns with in that pattern. One for Major keys and one for minor keys. If you learn that pattern and learn it as a cyclical pattern, you have all of the major and natural minor keys. By cyclical pattern I mean that the pattern repeats itself, going up or down. What you have to do to change keys is to shift the pattern up or down the fret board till the root note location matches the key you want. I think it's easiest to match a root note position on the lowest bass string (G on mando, E on guitar).

  10. #10
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: scales

    Any book or material for violin scales would also work for the mandolin, assuming you read std notation. There are some classic scale books but I also have used Essentials for Strings.
    Jim

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    Capt. E Capt. E's Avatar
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    Default Re: scales

    The Fretboard Roadmaps for mandolin is one good book to have. For sale pretty cheap here: http://www.overstock.com/Books-Movie...7/product.html
    Jammin' south of the river
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    Default Re: scales

    thanks for all the advice everybody! im coming to a point where i am going pay for some lessons. I need some direction. I feel like i am all over the place and i cant focus on one thing at a time.

  13. #13

    Default Re: scales

    Major (Ionian) Scales follow the following intervals: Root, Whole, Whole, Half, Whole, Whole, Whole, Half. The (relative) Minor (Aeolian) Scales start on the 6th note of the Major scale and continue the interval progression.

    So what I recommend you do is start at the top with C major (no sharps or flats) and go clockwise around the circle of fifths:
    C,G,D,A,E,B,F#,C#
    Then go counterclockwise:
    C,F,Bflat,Eflat,Aflat,Dflat,Gflat,Cflat

    And the relative minors for all of those

    That will be an excellent start!

  14. #14

    Default Re: scales

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Sweet View Post
    Major (Ionian) Scales follow the following intervals: Root, Whole, Whole, Half, Whole, Whole, Whole, Half. The (relative) Minor (Aeolian) Scales start on the 6th note of the Major scale and continue the interval progression.

    So what I recommend you do is start at the top with C major (no sharps or flats) and go clockwise around the circle of fifths:
    C,G,D,A,E,B,F#,C#
    Then go counterclockwise:
    C,F,Bflat,Eflat,Aflat,Dflat,Gflat,Cflat

    And the relative minors for all of those

    That will be an excellent start!
    Whew, I think that "start" would finish me off. I know there's a pattern to memorize but by the time you switch strings and frets and root notes it's like memorizing phone books to me. I could get through all of that and someone would point to me for a solo and I'd probably just fart. I don't think the light has "switched" on for me yet. I'm trying those ffcp exercises now, along with basic arpeggios in D A G C, and basic double stops. Doesn't feel very systematic. I hope I'm not trying to fit 3 puzzle pieces together from 3 completely different puzzles. Trying to find that light switch in the dark.
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  15. #15
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: scales

    Quote Originally Posted by jab View Post
    Whew, I think that "start" would finish me off. I know there's a pattern to memorize but by the time you switch strings and frets and root notes it's like memorizing phone books to me. I could get through all of that and someone would point to me for a solo and I'd probably just fart. I don't think the light has "switched" on for me yet. I'm trying those ffcp exercises now, along with basic arpeggios in D A G C, and basic double stops. Doesn't feel very systematic. I hope I'm not trying to fit 3 puzzle pieces together from 3 completely different puzzles. Trying to find that light switch in the dark.
    That is why a simple scale book is best IMHO. I have played thru Essentials for Strings and they do just that. It is better to have it written out at the beginning. I would stick to maybe C and up to 4 sharps and 4 flats at the beginning. I also find scales sort of boring. My favorite etude book is Goichberg 35 Progressive Etudes for Mandolin but it is currently out of print. If you can find a copy, there are some nice little melodies in there that are actually fun to play. Of course, this is all predicated on your ability to read standard notation.
    Jim

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    Default Re: scales

    So even though I play guitar, i have never really attempted to learn anything about theory. Now that i am starting to play the mandolin i am trying so hard to learn everything that i just get overwhelmed. I just figured learning differemnt scales along with chord progressions is a good place to start.

    Am i starting in the right place?

  17. #17

    Default Re: scales

    Hey, music theory can be overwhelming if you are trying to memorize things all at once. I remember first learning music theory, and thinking that i could just memorize and understand, but it doesn't work like that. Learning scales is a good start, but just memorizing the patterns won't lead to understanding, think about the relationships involved in the notes of the scale, and in relation to the fretboard. Then in time you should be able to build the scales from scratch anywhere on the fretboard.

    This might not help you, but if you look at the FFcP patterns, you'll notice that all of the patterns are still the same root,whole,whole,half.... formula of the major scale, just using another finger to start. If you wanted the FFcP for a minor or pentatonic scale, you could simply build it knowing the formula for the minor scale. i.e. root, whole, half, whole... or the pentatonic scale. Knowing that a half step is equivalent to one fret, and a whole step is 2 frets, you can easily start to remember relationships even without knowledge of the notes.

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    Default Re: scales

    ok, so i understand the root, whole, whole, half pattern, and whenever i jam with my friend (who knows a lot about music theory) i am following that pattern and it sounds great, however i have no idea what i am playing.

    On guitar for example, if i am playing the pentatonic scales and start in F, there are different patterns to continue up the fretboard.
    So i guess my question is, is there an equivelent on the mandolin? Is that what i am playing when i follow the major scale pattern?

  19. #19
    mando-evangelist August Watters's Avatar
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    Default Re: scales

    Yes, we have a similar thing: move the pentatonic scale up the neck and you'll five patterns in five positions that work well in G. But mandolinists don't use them as much, because most don't play up the neck as far or as often as guitar players do. Yes, it can be done and done well, but I think you'll find most people find that high territory less useful than on guitar.

    But keeping our eye on the ball: Learning G pentatonic all the way up the neck is a good idea, but I'd recommend mastering G, A, C, and D pentatonics in the lower part of the neck first. And think about rhythm and phrasing, because playing scales alone isn't likely to lead you to an improvisational concept! Good luck, and have fun with it!

  20. #20
    mando-evangelist August Watters's Avatar
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    Default Re: scales

    Oh, just one more thing: have you experimented with patterns? Once you can play the scale, it's good to break it up in a series of increasingly complex patterns, to help really internalize the scale. So, using Nashville Numbers: a major scale can be broken up:

    1 - 2 - 3 - 1, 2 - 3 - 4 - 2, 3 - 4 - 5 - 3, etc.
    or
    1 - 3 - 2 - 1, 2 - 4 - 3 - 2, 3 - 5 - 4 - 3, etc.
    or
    1 - 2 - 7 - 1, 2 - 3 - 1 - 2, 3 - 4 - 2 - 3, etc.

    This is what melodies are made of. Enjoy!
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    Default Re: scales

    I wish i could afford private lessons. Thanks for all your help everybody. I feel like im all over the place, but im going to go back to the pentatonic scales later. For the past week i have been learning the major scales. I have G, A, B, C, down and working on remembering how to play D.

    My friend and i are also working on writing a song with a 7/8 time signature which is new to me, but it sounds awsome so far. I just need to learn more about the mandolin, i feel limited in what i can avtually play now.

  22. #22

    Default Re: scales

    Quote Originally Posted by burton08 View Post
    , but im going to go back to the pentatonic scales later. For the past week i have been learning the major scales. I have G, A, B, C, down and working on remembering how to play D.

    so my simple question is, if I wanted to learn to play some solo's along with songs should I spend time on the major scales or pentatonic first? And I'm not a bluegrasser, I play along with rock, country, folk, that kind of thing. Most of the music I end up playing is the D A G C kind of stuff.
    Collings MF Gloss Top mandolin, Kentucky KM-1000 mandolin, Godin A-8 electric mandolin, Pono Ukulele, Gold Tone PBS Signature Resonator guitar, Martin/Taylor 6 & 12 string acoustic guitars, Les Paul/ES-335/LP Jr./Strat/Tele elec guitars.

  23. #23
    String-Bending Heretic mandocrucian's Avatar
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    Default Re: scales

    You might find The Pentatonic Mandolin useful.

    NH

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    Registered User Dan Margolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: scales

    Mandolin Scale Finder, Hal Leonard Publications
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  25. #25
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    Default Re: scales

    "Music Theory for Modern Mandolin" (or something pretty close to that title) is quite dense and is probably best used as a reference rather than a course of study, but it's got pretty much anything you could need in it...standard notation and tab, as well as tons of chord diagrams...

    NFI
    Chuck

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