Neck Reset on a Montana Gibson F-5

[Hendrik Ahrend]

A good friend of mine owns a nice sounding Montana-made Gibson F5 Custom (1993). This mando has a very shallow neck-set and, consequently, a very low bridge, which makes that instrument a bit uncomfortable to play for my friend, especially in comparism with his other 1992 Gibson F5. (As I understand it, it's not the action, it's more the low bridge, which bothers him. When I owned that mando years ago before I sold it to my friend, I never had any problems with it. But different strokes ...) Anyhow, his question is: Since that mando has a bolted-on neck, would you think a neck reset to be possible? Does any of you experts have experience with resetting a bolted-on neck? Furthermore, were those necks just bolted on, or were they also glued? Titebond wouldn't be all too easy to soften, wouldn't it? Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance, Henry

[sunburst]

The bolts are Allen head, and a loooooong Allen wrench will reach then through the end pin hole. First, check to see that they are tight. Neck bolts often become loose because of 'compression set' in the wood, so sometimes simply tightening neck bolts can restore neck angle.
I don't know if those necks were glued or not, and if they were I don't know what adhesive was used, so when tightening the bolts doesn't work, someone else will have to help you out from there.

[lenf12]

A call to the STE (Weber) factory might be a wise idea. I'm sure they would happily share some of the building concepts and repair techniques with you. The 2 bolts were used to hold the neck joint together while the glue dried. They will not snug up the neck joint or alter the neck angle by tightening or loosening them. As far as the glue, I'm guessing it's of the Titebond variety so pulling a fret over the neck joint and drilling a couple of holes to introduce steam into the joint should loosen the glue very well. Good luck!!

Enjoy!
Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Bernie Daniel]

A call to the STE (Weber) factory might be a wise idea. I'm sure they would happily share some of the building concepts and repair techniques with you. The 2 bolts were used to hold the neck joint together while the glue dried. They will not snug up the neck joint or alter the neck angle by tightening or loosening them. As far as the glue, I'm guessing it's of the Titebond variety so pulling a fret over the neck joint and drilling a couple of holes to introduce steam into the joint should loosen the glue very well. Good luck!! Enjoy! Len B. Clearwater, FL

The bolt-on necks were glued? That is the first time I have heard that. The reason I question it at all is several individuals whom I would have thought to be knowledgeable, implied in a thread (year or so ago) on a related topic that to glue a bolt on neck defeats the purpose of having the bolted (adjustable) feature?

But contacting Weber is a great idea -- they would know. Also Gary Carlson is also now a member of this forum -- for sure he would know. Please post the response if you get one from Bruce Weber!

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Thanks to all of you for your friendly answers! Contacting Bruce Weber, whose first name BTW appears on the (maple!) neck- and end blocks of this custom F5 in question, is a good idea. I will certainly try to and share his response.

[Bill Snyder]

FWIW, Bernie his name is Steve Carlson.

[Bernie Daniel]

FWIW, Bernie his name is Steve Carlson.

I used to know that!

[j. condino]

The bolt-on necks were glued? That is the first time I have heard that. The reason I question it at all is several individuals whom I would have thought to be knowledgeable, implied in a thread (year or so ago) on a related topic that to glue a bolt on neck defeats the purpose of having the bolted (adjustable) feature?

Bernie:
If you were approaching a bolt on neck from the standpoint of long term access and adjustability, then the idea of gluing a bolt on neck does not make very much sense. I think that this example has more to do with process oriented manufacturing. An internal bolt makes for a very nice clamping system to get a specific job done in a difficult location in a production environment.

j.
www.condino.com

coming this month:
www.blueridgeschooloflutherie.com

[Ivan Kelsall]

Both Weber & Summit Mandolins employ the bolts as a 'fine adjustment' technique prior to permanently glueing the neck at the correct angle,
Ivan

[Big Joe]

Yes, it can be reset, but it is more than just tightening the bolts. The nut or receiver insert in the neck can come loose and pull out of the neck if you are not very careful... and sometimes even if you are very careful. If your neck angle has decreased to the point the bridge is too low, then it is time to have it reset. Yes, there is glue in there as well. We have done a good number of these over the years, and that is why I don't like tenon and mortise joints... with or without bolts... in mandolins. A lot of builders are turning to these joints in the last number of years, but they just are not as tight as a good dovetail.

[Bernie Daniel]

Bernie:
If you were approaching a bolt on neck from the standpoint of long term access and adjustability, then the idea of gluing a bolt on neck does not make very much sense. I think that this example has more to do with process oriented manufacturing. An internal bolt makes for a very nice clamping system to get a specific job done in a difficult location in a production environment.

j.
www.condino.com

coming this month:
www.blueridgeschooloflutherie.com

Makes sense, thanks. I happened to correspond last night to a local builder here who makes a great little mandolin and he said the same thing!

[multidon]

Does anyone know if the Breedlove neck joint has glue plus clamping screw, or if it's a true bolt on?

[j. condino]

I can't speak for the new production models on Breedloves, but I build a fair amount of them over a dozen years ago and up to around serial number 4500 they had no glue. There is a small threaded insert in the heel of the neck and a hole in the block-actually two of each if I remember correctly. They are build and finished independently of each other and then mated together during the final assembly and setup by inserting a long T handled allen wrench and bolt through the endpin hole.

You can get several different sizes and lengths of the wrenches from the industrial supply company MSC for about $20. Any current owner or tech should also be able to remove the neck without any issues and or mess around with things, change the neck angle, that sort of thing very easy, The heel inserts should be double threaded brass or steel, similar to an older Taylor guitar type. Remember that you are tightening wood, so don't overtorque it.

j.
www.condino.com

coming this month:
www.blueridgeschooloflutherie.com
www.kaybassrepair.com