choro setup

[daniel k]

Hi all, my name is Daniel, I'm new to the forum. I'm going to the Port Townsend workshop for the first time this year, I'm totally excited. Have been playing choro for about 2 years.

I'm curious how you all set up your mandolins for choro: strings, action, pick, etc. My Gibson A Jr snakehead is in the shop getting new frets and nut, so will be starting fresh. I've tried the Tomastik medium strings and really liked the sound and feel, but couldn't use them before because they didn't work with my worn out 90 year old nut. I don't know if they would have the volume needed to cut through in an ensemble. Pickwise, I usually use the big triangular 1mm claytons, I have the impression most choro players use a thinner pick to get that more biting projecting sound.

I'd also be glad to hear any reports from previous Pt Townsend participants so I know a bit more about what to expect...

Cheers,
Daniel

[Jim Garber]

Generally choro players use pretty light gauge strings but their instruments are different from your A Jr. I would say you should just get the best set up that you are comfortable with and that will allow you to play these relatively demanding tunes. Dudu Maia came to NYC recently and he has changed his way of playing but uses a standard fender style pick. I would say that even within the genre there is really no one way.

[daniel k]

Hi Jim, "relatively demanding" is right!

Yeah, i figure it is a very individual set of decisions based on instrument, player, and personality, but am curious how others deal with the competing requirements for ease of playing and volume, and if people have experience making non-brazilian instruments sound a little more choro-ish.
Thanks,
D

[Jim Garber]

As far as volume... Dudu went off one night to a roda in Brooklyn and didn't take his bandolim. He said he would not be heard without a pickup and his main one did not have one.

As far as tone goes, I believe that that the modern bandolim strings are silk and steel for the wound ones. However you are also talking about a flattop mandolin as opposed to a Gibson. I am not sure that it will make that much of a difference or make it sound more choro-ish. You could certainly try using silk and steel strings or even Brazilian strings, if you have any or can find some, but there is no guarantee they will sound like a bandolim. I honestly think that sounding more choro-ish is more in the player than in the instrument and barring getting yourself a Brazilian instrument, you could do just fine on your A Jr.

I am sure that others will chime in here. I know that Al, the director of the Centrum workshop, frequents these forums and hopefully could impart some wisdom here.

[Doug Hoople]

Hi Daniel,

There's not a lot of use trying to modify your instrument to make it sound more Brazilian. The more you try, the less your A Jr. will sound like itself, and the more it will sound like it's trying to be something it's not.

That's ok, too. There are plenty of North American mandolinists playing choro on arched mandolins (Mike Marshall, John Reischman, Will Patton), and none of them have felt the need to modify their mandolins. Will Patton, btw, plays a Gibson A, so you can check out his recordings to get an idea of the kind of sound you might expect (he features a choro or two on many of his recordings).

I spent a couple of years playing choro on an arched mandolin, and went through some of the motions of changing strings and picks. Everything I tried took me further away from a good sound on my instrument, and I wound up always reverting to the tried-and-true J74s and thick triangular pick.

You're lucky... you're headed to the Centrum Choro Workshop. It's a great event. And you'll get plenty of exposure to all sorts of instrument choices. Lots of people will still be playing their North American axes. And an alarming number of people will have brought their bandolins, too. Make sure you take advantage of anyone's offer to let you play theirs. You don't know what a bandolim is like until you've actually held a good one in your hands and played it.

FWIW, I attended the 2010 Workshop, and was lucky to be standing in the right place when Al was in the mood to hear someone else play his Batista. That moment instantly changed my attitude about what I wanted to play, and I had my own bandolim, a Barros, within a couple of months.

You have to make your own decisions. And you should experiment a little with strings and picks, especially because it costs so little. But my advice is to let your A Jr. be an A Jr. and learn to play choro on it as it is, or put your hard-earned money into a real bandolim if you want an instrument to give you THAT sound.

I honestly think that sounding more choro-ish is more in the player than in the instrument and barring getting yourself a Brazilian instrument, you could do just fine on your A Jr.

+1. Well put, Jim.

Also (while I'm editing), if you're trying out strings, give a set of light-gauge Elixirs a shot. Hamilton de Holanda uses Elixirs, and so, by that measure, they're the real thing. Among the big producers distributed in the US, they're the nearest thing to Brazilian strings, and they also work well on arched mandolins. You might try laying your hands on a set of real Brazilian strings, like Rouxinols, but they'd be hard to find, expensive, they sound pretty awful on arched mandolins, and they're quite delicate and breakable.

Enjoy, Daniel. It's a lot of fun playing your way through this particular evolution!

[Jim Garber]

There are plenty of North American mandolinists playing choro on arched mandolins (Mike Marshall, John Reischman, Will Patton), and none of them have felt the need to modify their mandolins.

Add Tim Connell to that list. He plays choro on a modernistic Arrow mandolin. Sounds fine to me.

[Al Bergstein]

Daniel, i agree with all these comments. Look me up at the workshop and i'll give you a set of Brazilian bandolim strings to try out. You can also spend time playing my bandolim. Don't worry about duplicating the sound. Just learn the tunes by heart. Much of it is in picking, non written notation (listen to jacob) and other non instrument issues. Very few of us north americanos will ever 'play it like they do' even with a bandolim,so just enjoy it forwhat it is. We should have another great workshop. Very Sorry Doug and all the rest won't be there. CU soon!

Al the instigator

[Jim Garber]

Al: Watch out what you wish for. I would love to get out to your choro extravaganza. Ah, someday!! In the meantime, we may try to expand what we are doing here in the NY area. There is interest here in choro, tho I doubt it is as widespread as it is out by you.

I agree that memorizing is the best course. it took me awhile but I have one (count 'em) under my belt that I can prob play in total. In addition, there are fragments of others in my head and fingers already.

[Al Bergstein]

Just a diversion to show the smiling faces and some great memories....last years graduation. Just for Daniel for his enthusiasm.

[Al Bergstein]

deleted...

[daniel k]

Thanks everybody for your input. Now all I have to do is learn more tunes, master the chords and rhythms, memorize everything, learn to improvise, and learn how to pronounce the titles...

Alb, looking forward to the workshop!