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Thread: Bill Monroe Question

  1. #26
    Registered User swampstomper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Albert View Post
    That's why he may be the most important figure in American music that has ever lived….
    Well, I'm as much a Monrovian as the next picker, but this is somewhat over the top... how about Stephen Foster, Charles Mingus, Cole Porter, Duke Ellington, Miles Davis.... the list could go on.

  2. #27

    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Quote Originally Posted by swampstomper View Post
    Well, I'm as much a Monrovian as the next picker, but this is somewhat over the top... how about Stephen Foster, Charles Mingus, Cole Porter, Duke Ellington, Miles Davis.... the list could go on.
    And Louis Armstrong.

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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Swampy - I understand your point,but the musicians you mention simply 'added to' existing musical genres.Bill Monroe began a whole NEW genre of his own,Bluegrass Music.Very,very few people have done that - in fact i can't think of one single other person who has done that. Most 'new' forms of music simply being 'add-ons' to existing forms. In that respect,i agree entirely with J.Albert,& in fact i've said the same thing in many previous threads re.Bill Monroe.Not only was BM one of the greatest innovators in American music,he gained a following across the globe for Bluegrass music.
    BM's decision not to participate in the WTCBU recording may have been a wrong decision financially,but for him,it was more than finance that was at stake,it was his 'vision of himself' as participating in a recording with a 'bunch of hippies' that mattered most. He was certainly not a man to sell himself for pure gain. Ihave to admit that i'm very much the same way,some things i'll go along with & some things i'll just say no way !. Years back i turned down a job as Banjo player in a very successful UK band because they used an electric Bass Guitar & not a Bass Fiddle. For me Bluegrass is acoustic music,pure & simple.I'll listen to bands with elec.instruments,but i want no part of playing in one - but maybe that's just me,
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Well, not to get into a loooong discussion, but Monroe didn't invent out of whole cloth. He took elements that were already there (Monroe Brothers, Skillet Lickers, Charlie Poole, field hollers and other African-American styles, western swing [where do you think the multiple fiddle idea came from??] etc.) and created a personal vision. So-called "blue grass music" went through many stages also, as he was always innovating. He certainly was not afraid to incorporate the best from his sidemen, Scruggs, Keith and K Baker may be the best examples, but what about Flatt, Martin, Mayfield? I wouldn't say that Monroe was more "original" or promethian than several in my list above.

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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Bondage View Post
    ... but, is my Image of the Man WAY off base??
    Bondage, you just never met him and therefore rely on these books which may have an agenda of their own. He might have been different to different people, but I liked him. I never found him mean. He went so far out of his way for people. He gave me 10 or 12 tunes that he wrote to use on my albums. These had either not be recorded yet, or never even copyrighted. These were just his musical thoughts that had taken tune form. I never asked him for that, he just showed me the tunes and said, here is a number that would sound good on your album. I was lucky to have recorders on me or nearby when that happened or I would have forgotten them by the next day.

    If you were interested in his music, Bluegrass... the way he played it, then you were in. Bill bought me a meal on more than one occasion. He was kind of quiet. So when he said something, it got your attention. I had to negotiate contracts with him... and learned tunes from him... You had to be on your toes and not say anything that didn't fly in his world, but then, I was from Northern California. The general feeling was that we were all drug addicts or gay. Back there in the 1970s the folks standing around you would most likely not think you were so great if you were back in their states... down south. Bill and Baker on the other hand had been all over the world and were more understanding toward different cultures. So I can't fault the guy as he was very honest and kept his word in my dealings with him.

    And being a traditionalist, I thought it was a great statement when at Bean Blossom he fired the McLain Family for not playing traditional sounding Bluegrass. He called them vaudeville. They were pretty sweetsy sounding. I mean, it is his festival, he wanted to make a statement... and by god that's what he did. :-)

    Jim Moss

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    I am loving it.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Quite correct Swampy,but it was Bill Monroe who had it in his head what he thought his band should sound like. Othe country musicians 'might' have thought of doing it,in the same way that maybe several folk thought of inventing the 'light bulb',but only one guy actually did it - Thomas Edison,so,it's his invention. We all know that it wasn't Bill Monroe himself who 'named' the music Bluegrass,so i wonder what he thought it was,simply another form of 'rural country music',an off-shoot of Old Timey music or ......?.
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    maybe several folk thought of inventing the 'light bulb',but only one guy actually did it - Thomas Edison,so,it's his invention.
    I believe that was actually Joseph Swan.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Swan

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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Albert View Post
    That's why he may be the most important figure in American music that has ever lived….
    - John
    Now, I know it says in your profile, you are from CT, but when I read your statement above I thought, "hmm...this guy's from Texas making two tall boasts... and in one sentence." Then I re read and saw "may be", so I guess it's OK. Actually I don't agree he is even close, but I do like some of his music.
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Bill Monroe is definitely the most important American musician I am thinking of RIGHT NOW. That is a true statement just about all the time.

    I must say, it is great to hear from those with first-hand knowledge of the man. Thank you for chiming in, Mr. Moss.
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Almeria - http://www.enchantedlearning.com/inv...ightbulb.shtml I think it's down to who you believe invented the first 'real' light bulb of the type we use today.But we're off topic !,
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Henrickson View Post
    I must say, it is great to hear from those with first-hand knowledge of the man. Thank you for chiming in, Mr. Moss.
    I mean, Bill Monroe said if I recorded Tanyards and Real Foot Real that he would record an introduction which I could use as I saw fit. So when my LP came out with all that landscape that LPs had, I had his words typeset for the back. Of course, as you might expect in these situations the graphics artist got the wording ALMOST right. It was a girlfriend of mine so I let it slide. When I went to CD for that album I used Bill's actual words... I dug out the cassette tape which he recorded his intro on and I just EQ'ed it and put that on the CD. How many Big Biscuits of Bluegrass would ever do that for you?

    A lot of people don't know this, but at festivals like Bean Blossom, the band would ditch Monroe. They would sometimes hide from him... so that they could have time to themselves I guess. That happened at Bean Blossom. Of course, I was glued to the guy. I had either driven to or hitch hiked to Bean Blossom from California and I was not going to miss a chance to hang out with these cats. It was at one of these times when Baker and whoever were spending some time at one of the camps, at Bean Blossom... after all of the shows... about midnight or so... that Monroe went looking to jam some. He knew what was up and walked up to this back camp and saw Baker and at least one of the other band members there. I was with him. When he got within eye shot of them, you could hear the comments from the band members there... SO could Monroe. So he just as Baker something regarding business and then walked away toward the road near the back clearing there where the power lines are. He looked at me with my fiddle case in my hand and said, why don't you get that out and lets play some. So I did... it took a few seconds for the shock to wear off, but we started playing. Soon we had picked up a guitar player and we went at it for about 3 hours. It was great. That is where he first started showing me tunes for my albums. In the dark about midnight at Bean Blossom.

    I could tell you a bunch of stories like this. To me, he was not a grouchy guy at all. You do have to keep in mind that he was from another time before my time and my time is most likely before many people on this list's time. That is a lot of time back and you need to always be aware of the potential for communication breakdown. I mean, how much is that to ask? I am from the 1960s born in 1952. The big musicians of my time would never speak to you. So to have such easy access to this all time great... well... I can watch how I phrase things for that. I mean, it is a different way of life. Not my way of life. So what? Think about the day to day issues he had to deal with managing the Bluegrass Boys and getting gigs. And there are some people out there who are just off the wall. I mean, they say things that are beyond belief. I ran into that in the 10 years I managed Frank Wakefield. Not often, but they are there and you just seem to run into them when you don't expect it. There were a hand full that were just there to run interference. Ramp that up to a band like Monroe's add to that his problems with his eyes and his quiet nature and you have some issues that might give the impression that you are grumpy. That might be what people saw from a distance who thought he was as Bondage stated. You just had to get past that and walk up and meet the guy. Then it was, "Yes sir, what can I do for you?"

    Jim Moss

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    Bill was certainly a complex character to say the least. I think that is a good thing and fairly normal for highly intelligent people. Bill was always kind and wonderful to me and nearly everyone. Certainly there were periods of his life where he may have been a fairly tough and austere individual. That was not unusual for those who lived and worked through the Great Depression. Even the little things we take for granted were major expenses to him. When he started, life was tough and money was nonexistent. Many from this era were considered hard, but truly were just reflecting the times in which they were raised.

    Bill would come to the shop occasionally. He would tell me to grab a mandolin and he would play a bit for me. He would say that I "needed to get it down real good". It was his "gift to me". He would expect me to play it back right then. It was an honor to have him to that.

    I have been honored to know many of the great musicians of the last number of decades from many genres of music. In nearly every case the musician or artist has been very good and kind to me and those around me. Many have a "stage personality" that has nothing to do with who they are in person. While most were quite eclectic in many ways, they were all great experiences. The same is true with Bill.

    Bill seemed to either like someone or not. If he liked you he treated you very well. If he did not like you, he had no use for you so there was not reason to bother with you. That is not an unusual trait. However, it can be viewed as mean or hard to get along with. I never experienced that with Bill. I did see a couple occasions he did not want to be bothered and could be a bit elusive, but usually he relished a crowd and he certainly dominated the audience. He was usually very approachable and friendly.

    It was my joy to have the opportunity to know Bill Monroe and a host of other incredible people.
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    From Jim Moss - " They would sometimes hide from him... so that they could have time to themselves I guess.......".That's exactly what happened when Bill Monroe & the Boys played the 'Manchester Sports Guild' (MSG) over here in Manchester UK in June 1966. My band opened for them & Bill Clifton was on next. During the interval,after his first spot,Bill Monroe put his Mandolin in it's case & took it & stood over near the bar in the corner of the room. Lamar Grier sat near the stage,but Richard Green,Peter Rowan & James Monroe disappeared. Having learned in latter years that Bill Monroe was a non-drinker,i suspect that the 'missing boys' went to the public bar downstairs for a drink. That was when i took the opportunity to speak to Bill Monroe & get his & Lamar Grier's autograph on the back of Bill's LP "Bluegrass Ramble".Unfortunately i didn't get the chance to obtain the autographs of the 3 others. As a 21 year old banjo player,3 years into it,all i knew about Bill Monroe was that 'he had a Bluegrass band'.I knew nothing of his role as 'the father of Bluegrass music'. I wish i could have met him 100's of times more. I hold him in the very highest esteem for what he was & for what he did for Country music.
    When i spoke to him,he was the very soul of courtesy & politeness.One thing though,you could tell that he was a 'no nonsense' type guy - polite,but firm & direct in what he said. It was certainly THE most memorable experience in 50 years of being involved in Bluegrass music,50 years of enjoying 'his' musical legacy,
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Terrific thread!
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    This is a good thread. My OP was soley about WTCBU, no intent to get argumentive about this or that. There are some great personal stories about Big Mon. Keep it positive!

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    Bill and Jimmy Martin were not considered "close friends". Jimmy was not a fan of Bill's at all. I understood it that there were just too many that might not get along. However, I was not there so any information I have is just hearsay. That's a fancy name for gossip. He certainly could have been a great asset and the band for the album was more than capable of doing anything they wanted to do. Sometimes a conglomerate project such as that can be a bit less than the sum of the individual parts. Still, I loved the album and never felt anything was lacking by any means and the musicianship was pretty good for what was essentially a jam session.
    Have a Great Day!
    Joe Vest

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    Registered User swampstomper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    "the musicianship was pretty good for what was essentially a jam session." That's what I was trying to say about the level. Whereas, when Monroe was in the studio he controlled things himself (not always with the best results -- the terrible mastering on "Master of BG" is a good example) but anyway it ending up sounding like HE wanted it. On someone else's product he couldn't control the outcome. Which is perhaps why he reportedly said they could maybe be on his project but he wasn't going to be on theirs.

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    Big Joe - From what i've read about the man,Jimmy Martin was as prickly a character as Bill Monroe was & maybe a bit too 'up-front' in his behaviour for some folks.That said,i love the guy's music. His recording, "Big & Country Instrumentals",is never far away from my record deck,& "Big Country" for me, is an all-time classic,(despite the drums !),
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    Jimmy, like Bill, was certainly a character and, like Bill, came from the same era and held somewhat similar ideas about who should lead their respective bands. Jimmy was a bit more flamboyant than Bill, but his bands were still under his thumb. Like Bill, Jimmy had some great musicians working with him. While each were great in their own way, the musicians they surrounded themselves with certainly added to their greatness.

    I knew Jimmy a bit. Not as well as Bill, but just like Bill, Jimmy always treated me very nice and was a gentleman. He was very clear on what he wanted and expected that to be the way it was done, but I don't see that as a problem. Both were very colorful characters but still a real joy to have known. I love Jimmy's music as much as Bill's. They are just different musically.
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    Dan Sampson mando_dan's Avatar
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    Hey posters- thanks so much for telling us about your experiences! My introduction to the bluegrass world occurred long after Mr. Monroe died so it's wonderful to hear these accounts of a such a challenging, fascinating, and talented artist.
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    Oh yes, Bill could be obstinate or gracious, depending on the situation. I remember a workshop he did at a festival in the late 80's. Smallish crowd. A question came out: "Bill, isn't it true that bluegrass music was never the same after Lester and Earl left your band?" You could have heard a pin drop.

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    I saw and met Bill in Edmonton Alberta when he was I believe 84 years old. I had just finished reading the book " The Boss Man" about Bill and Muddy Waters and how their careeers paralleled one anothers. In the book it mentioned that Bill was very much from the "old school" and preferred the old fahioned terms of respect (ie. Mr Monroe )when dealing with strangers. I had purchased a CD and thought I would get him to autograph it. Everyone was yelling Bill, Bill Bill etc. He was on autopilot signing one after the other, I caught his eye and said quietly "Mr Monroe would you sign my CD" He immediately stopped and came over to me, asked my name, asked if I played and carried on a conversation with me to the chagrin of the others waiting. It was a great experience and I believe it was due to that term of respect using the "Mister Monroe".
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    Interesting conversation. You mention BB, he is my neighbor, and very friendly. I have often wondered how some of these guys relate to each other. Vasser was playing with Jerry and Grisman in a band in the 70's yet when you see the pictures of that group it is clear that Vasser does not fit in, except musically. His hair is high on the head and combed slick(Vitalis look) and he is with a group of the drug culture. They didn't stick long but the music they made is still very popular.
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanN View Post
    "Bill, isn't it true that bluegrass music was never the same after Lester and Earl left your band?" You could have heard a pin drop.
    Cripes !!! - I bet steam was coming out of Bill Monroe's ears - THE question of all time NOT to ask Bill Monroe.
    As i said above,i love Jimmy Martin's music,his style was his own & he wrote some great songs. He rather shot himself in the foot by being a tad ungracious to folk he should have been nice to at times,from what i've read. I have the DVD "King of Bluegrass" - well worth buying if you don't have it - & Jimmy despite his protestations to the contrary,was obviously very distressed by not being a 'member' of The Grand Ole Opry. IMO,despite his in your face character (at times) i think he deserved to be. Sorry to sort of sideline the OP thread,
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