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Thread: Bill Monroe Question

  1. #51
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    A pin drop? I am surprised you didn't hear a gun going off.
    Them's Fight'n Words!

    Well, now you can see what I mean about some people. How can you
    blame the guy for being off when he gets a question like that from time to time.
    Someone put that person up to it I am sure. Most people would have more
    brain cells then to ask that kind of a question of Monroe himself. Clearly,
    this person had a chip on their shoulder about something.

    In 1974 I was in Denver Colorado at a festival... it turned out to be
    a very colorful experience for me. Some good, some bad.
    I did get to take this GREAT picture of Baker flipping off Monroe. Classic!
    If I ever write a book I will dig that one out.
    Baker wanted to go off somewhere after their performance and Monroe
    wanted him to stay near by. Baker was having a hissy fit, you know...
    turning around fast and stomping his feet... that kind of thing.
    And about that time I said "Baker, I want to take a picture".
    Baker said, "I'll give you a picture!" :-)
    SOooo I have this photo of Monroe walking away to the right of frame
    and about 5 feet behind him Kenny Baker is holding his fiddle by his belt line,
    glaring at Monroe.
    And... with his right hand holding his fiddle, he is flipping him off. Classic!
    I printed one out on paper for Baker and titled it "The Best In Tension".

    The night we got there, I was with Kim... the girl in the Bean Blossom 1975
    photo pages, Monroe was on stage and had been on stage for a bit.
    Picture this, it is dark out. The stage has the Bluegrass Boys with Monroe
    on it. The audience is pretty good in size. Everyone is listening to
    Monroe's show. What could be better for a summer night?
    Monroe starts to play Kentucky Mandolin. The audience is riveted...
    You can sense the magic in the air...
    Then some 20ish shirtless guy stands up and yells out at FULL VOICE,
    "Hey, Mike! Over Here! Mike! Hey!"

    Monroe... stops in mid tune.
    He looks up slowly... and out into the audience at this guy.

    It was like that Twilight Zone where everything on the planet is frozen in time.

    Total Quiet falls over the audience!

    It was like that for what seemed an eternity. However,
    when I moved my gaze from Monroe to this guy... he had vanished
    into thin air! It was only 2 to 3 seconds... but poof! Gone!
    It was like Monroe vaporized this guy! :-)
    After a moment Monroe started Kentucky Mandolin again.
    This time Nobody said a word.

    Now...
    The last story I would be wise to put in another post because
    it will surely fail the censor's test here. I would not want to
    have this post taken down over a story about Jack Cook which
    involved my girlfriend at the time, Kim.

    So, if I post it, you had better read it fast...
    I have to think about this...
    Kim was a babe! However, she wasn't perfect...
    She hadn't been around the south much... and she
    thought Jack Cook was French because of his accent.
    The story goes downhill from there. :-)

    ...to be continued.

    Jim Moss
    Last edited by Jmoss; Mar-23-2012 at 7:02am.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

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  3. #53
    Registered User Jim Yates's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Quote Originally Posted by swampstomper View Post
    Also, the musicianship of the backup band was not up to his standards. Just listen to Jimmy Martin chewing them out, you can imagine how Bill would have reacted. Now, playing duets with Doc, or reprising instrumentals with Vassar, I am sure he'd have been happy doing. That whole project is sub-par every time the backing musicians take a break. Luckily they hired an excellent bassman (Junior Huskey) or the whole thing would have fallen apart.
    I have always admired the musicianship on this record. When I heard Jimmy Martin telling John McEuen off, I was surprised that John decided to leave it on there, but I feel he is not playing below the level of the others on the record. I can't understand calling John McEuen of Jimmy Fadden sub par musicians.
    Jim Yates

  4. #54
    Registered User swampstomper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Yates View Post
    I can't understand calling John McEuen of Jimmy Fadden sub par musicians.
    I could perhaps have phrased this better. The NGDB did not have "blue grass time", an intangible that drives the music forward even on slow songs. I discovered this concept in the Trischka/Wernick "Masters of the 5-string Banjo" book, where they ask each profiled musician to define "bluegrass time". It's hard for me to imagine NGDB musicians working as Blue Grass Boys.

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    The NGDB did not have "blue grass time", an intangible that drives the music forward even on slow songs.
    This is a great point, IMO, and one of those things that make it difficult to play BG with people who, even if they're excellent musicians, aren't really 'grassers. There's a certain push from the bass, a pop to the rhythm guitar, crisp staccato of the mando chop that give the music propulsion and forward momentum, whatever the BPM. Very hard to define, but easy to recognize.
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  6. #56
    Ursus Mandolinus Fretbear's Avatar
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    It's called "Drive"......Jimmy Martin and Flatt & Scruggs had as much in their music as anyone ever did. It's also one of those "get it" things. When I was a child my big brother put on a Flatt & Scruggs record, and I jumped up and down on the bed and was so excited I could barely contain myself. If that music leaves you cold or you just don't like it, then there's not much more to be said about it for you. If it does get you, it's the same thing.
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  7. #57

    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Yates View Post
    I have always admired the musicianship on this record. When I heard Jimmy Martin telling John McEuen off, I was surprised that John decided to leave it on there, but I feel he is not playing below the level of the others on the record. I can't understand calling John McEuen of Jimmy Fadden sub par musicians.
    As I had mentioned in my earlier post, I don't think Jimmy was telling McEuen off. Rather, I think he was giving him a a poke in fun for missing his kick.

  8. #58
    Registered User f5loar's Avatar
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    What I heard Jimmy tell McEuen I've heard dozens of times backstage and sometimes on stage to many of the newer Sunny Mtn. Boys. It's just Jimmy. He wants it his way or it's the highway. Was there more Sunny Mtn. Boys then Bluegrass Boys? I think so and in far less time.

  9. #59
    Registered User Gary Hedrick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    In the Jim Moss posting above"Monroe... stops in mid tune.
    He looks up slowly... and out into the audience at this guy.

    It was like that Twilight Zone where everything on the planet is frozen in time.

    Total Quiet falls over the audience!"

    This is EXACTLY what happen one night at Bean Blossom....night show.....drunk in the crowd shouting for a certain song....Uncle Pen I think....I'm in the control room looking out on the stage and suddenly time stops and then the man just leaves.....and voila' Bill starts to play another song...

    Drunks were a real deal with him.......a really big deal with him .....sure made an impression on this young man......HE was not someone to be triffled with......just by pure force of presence....

    One other interjection......I can remember him doing a cha-cha type of a chop on a song if he was really really peeved at the guitar player.....it was like an out of time smack up the side of the head to the guitar player.....and the look was intense....

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    A little off topic but still a good story -- Jim and Garys' story remind me of one night when I went to see the Seldom Scene at the Red Fox in Bethesda, this was before their move to the Birchmere, so must have been early 80's. Some drunk kept heckling John Starling, and after some attempts to placate him, Starling just quit in disgust. Walked off the stage and wouldn't come back. Hey, he had a good day job (Eyes, Ears, Nose, Throat and Wallet as Duffey said). So here is the Scene on stage with no guitarist with two more sets to play. Solution (more or less): Auldridge takes the guitar and Duffey decides he can still remember to play the dobro, which he hasn't touched for about 15 years. Duffey sings most of the leads and Auldridge has a few songs that are not in the Scene repertoire but which suit his very nice baritone voice. With Tom Gray holding it down, things are more-or-less together -- except for Duffey's wild attempts to play dobro. A fun evening anyway.

    OK, back on topic...

  11. #61
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    Maybe Mr. Bill wished them into the corn field? ...
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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmoss View Post
    Now...
    The last story I would be wise to put in another post because
    it will surely fail the censor's test here. I would not want to
    have this post taken down over a story about Jack Cook which
    involved my girlfriend at the time, Kim.

    So, if I post it, you had better read it fast...
    I have to think about this...
    Kim was a babe! However, she wasn't perfect...
    She hadn't been around the south much... and she
    thought Jack Cook was French because of his accent.
    The story goes downhill from there. :-)

    ...to be continued.

    Jim Moss

    I have been receiving emails regarding the outcome of this story. So I had
    better not leave it hanging. After giving it some thought I have decided
    not to post it other than to say that it was pretty gross and resulted in
    my getting yelled at. Kim told on no uncertain terms that I was never to
    leave her alone at a Bluegrass festival again. I had left her in the stands
    so I could go photograph Lester Flatt, backstage. It was then
    that Jack Cook came up and started a conversation with her. This girl
    was not easily offended, but what he said to her was gross. This was
    back just post 1960s when there was a widespread misunderstanding
    of the young west coast people. To see an attractive woman in a
    tank top was more than some could handle. I think this is why women
    would hang out near Kenny Baker at these events. They would
    feel safe around him. So this is the story. The actual words spoken
    are not necessary other than to know that they would offend most
    anyone in this day and age. I realized that going forward I should
    never leave an attractive woman alone at a festival.
    It was a good lesson for me. You wouldn't leave your mandolin,
    guitar or fiddle out unattended.

    Jim Moss

  13. #63

    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Bondage View Post
    Making this comment, and preparing for "verbal castration"!! as well as enlightenment: I have ALWAYS been aware of Bill Monroe and his influence on Music, but have only been more interested, due to this forum, the mandolin, Bluegrass, etc., and I must admit he seems to come off to me, in my opinion, as a rather gruff, grumpy individual! While I have not read the biographies about him, (I have viewed "High and Lonesome" though!), I am somewhat puzzled as to what to think of Mr Monroe! I have read about his disdain and feelings of betrayal, etc for other Bluegrass performers, (i.e. Flatt and Scruggs, Ralph Stanley, etc.), his attitudes toward other performers, comments concerning his rumored womanizing, his use of his band members to perform manual labor,etc. for him and his personal property, the claims of composing songs that he may actually have not written, (i.e. Footprints In The Snow), etc., etc., etc.,.....please can someone enlighten me? While I DO love Traditional Bluegrass and am aware of his talent and contribution to Music in general, and feel that he is very worthy of many of the accolades and recognition that he has received, but, is my Image of the Man WAY off base??
    Bill Monroe was not a 20th century man. Going to his farm in Goodletsville was like stepping back into the 1880's. That is how he farmed. His manners were good as long as others conducted themselves the same. He treated all women like ladies as long as they conducted themselves like ladies. The groupies and hangers on that flocked around were looking for something else. He was in a car crash in 1953 that broke him in half, he wore heavy back braces when standing for the rest of his life and was known for not taking pain meds. We can't compare him to todays standards. He was a 19 century man in his beliefs, and it suited him well.

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  15. #64
    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EggerRidgeBoy View Post
    I don't know if it was really a matter of the "long hair" and progressive attitudes - Bill did play with younger, long-haired musicians on occasion (although he often seemed compelled to make a joke about their hairstyles), and the mid-60s line-up of the Bluegrass Boys was, in an admittedly narrow context, a fairly progressive break from his earlier sound. From what I have read (wish I could remember where, since without citing a reference this is just a half-remembered anecdote), Bill's well-documented pride wouldn't let him be simply a guest artist on a Nitty Gritty Dirt Band record. I believe he said something along the lines of "Those boys can play on one of my records, but I'm not going to play on theirs". (Again, that is a rough paraphrase of something I read a few years back - if I can track down the actual quote I'll post it).
    One of my favourite music stories is the involvement of Roy Acuff, whose agent talked him into going. The agent said, look, just take your fiddle, listen, and if you don’t like it, you don’t even have to take the fiddle out. You’ll still get paid (not that Roy needed the money of course but he liked earning).

    The nitty gritty dirt band come in with their long hair and scruffy clothes and Roy is ready to leave. Finally talked in to listening, he sits and listens. Halfway through the first song, he stands up and says 'g******t. This is country music.’ Pulls his fiddle out and joins the session

    Also, Monroe later embraced acts like new grass revival and seldom scene. So I’d agree with the assertion he regretted not participating.
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  17. #65
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    Interesting stories. When she was a child, my wife's dad, Bob Roark from KY, used to do the festival circuit with a BG/Gospel act. She has a picture somewhere of her sitting beside Bill Monroe's brother eating sandwiches he'd made.
    Last edited by Snakum; Jan-29-2023 at 9:50am. Reason: Corrected Monroe reference. It was his brother, not Bill.
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    Monroe was Monroe as Monroe wanted to be.
    There is something to be said for being "uncompromising" especially when you are presenting an idea or art form that is above and beyond the status quo.
    So if Bill was worried about who he might offend with his character, Bluegrass would not be what it is today.
    I sure hope no one tries to "repaint" Bill in history as something he was not.
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    There's something to be said for artistic genius and complicated personalities. Look no further than the Father of Rock and Roll ... Chuck Berry. By all accounts he was a real peice of work. The most awesome figurative painter today, Odd Nerdrum. Same thing. Maybe it comes with the territory?
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  20. #68
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    I'll contribute the following to this rusty old thread:

    There could have been plenty of reasons that had nothing to do with Mr. Monroe's temperament, such as a gig in another part of the country, or a binding contract with his record company that would not allow him to record on another label. Lots of performers had that condition in their record contracts back then.

    ================================================== =====================================

    Or Monroe might simply have wanted to avoid an encounter with Jimmy Martin.

    When I saw Jimmy Martin about 1980 at the old Berkshire Mountain Bluegrass Festival in New York, he was highly intoxicated, extremely obnoxious, and was harrassing and insulting women in the audience from the stage. We weren't babes-in-the-woods, but we had never seen anything like it; and were so appalled by his behaviour that we didn't know what to do. It was the worst on-stage behaviour I've ever seen, and I've seen some stuff.

    If Martin had acted like that in the south, some of the boys would have hauled him off to the woods for a lesson in manners.

    I wouldn't want to be stuck all day in a cramped recording studio with anyone like that.

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    I remember Bill Keith was telling the story of how we was hired to play pedal steel for Monroe and Monroe introduced him as "Brad Keith", because "there is only one Bill in my band".
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  22. #70
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Monroe Question

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    ……….

    When I saw Jimmy Martin about 1980 at the old Berkshire Mountain Bluegrass Festival in New York, he was highly intoxicated, extremely obnoxious, and was harrassing and insulting women in the audience from the stage. We weren't babes-in-the-woods, but we had never seen anything like it; and were so appalled by his behaviour that we didn't know what to do. It was the worst on-stage behaviour I've ever seen, and I've seen some stuff.
    Sounds a lot like a ‘not Monroe’ Mando player I saw in the late 60’s insulting a difficult group.
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  23. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmsweeney View Post
    I remember Bill Keith was telling the story of how we was hired to play pedal steel for Monroe and Monroe introduced him as "Brad Keith", because "there is only one Bill in my band".
    This story is often told, wrongly, as an indictment of Monroe. That is NOT how Bill Keith interpreted the story as he made clear in an interview with me. Monroe expressed his concern to Keith. Keith chose the name Brad, I've now forgotten why - middle name maybe? Keith accepted it although he chose not to keep the stage name.
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