(used) Eastman 905 Two-point for a beginner?

[AlexBL]

I've read all of "those" threads about mandolins under this or that price range. I've read the debates on Eastman, Kentucky, the Loar. I've nipped that f-scroll envy in the the bud. This deviates from the typical "first time mandolin" question slightly; nevertheless, I appreciate your patience!


I've come across a used Eastman 905D for $850. This is about $150 more than I had hoped to spend on a first mandolin (everyone knows the ideal path is to buy an $500-700 mandolin, take a few lessons only to realize you are, in fact, a wellspring of natural talent, and to start saving up for a Collings MT.) However, I know Eastmans are well-regarded around here, and if this is indeed the deal it seems to be, I'm not sure I want to pass it up.


To that end, I've got a few questions:

• Two-points: Fine for a beginner looking to play bluegrass? Would I be correct in assuming that, like the f-scroll, these are primarily cosmetic? I've read some posts and aticles that two-points are better for jazz (which I love, and am not hoping to use my mandolin for just yet).
• Eastman 900 series: individual instrument variation aside, how does this series compare tone-wise to the 800s or other series. Warmer? Woodier? Crisper? Distinct in any other way? As problematic a question as this is, are the 900s worth more than the 800s, or is the difference primarily cosmetic?
• Eastman two-points: they were discontinued; should I take this as a warning sign?
• Eastman -- new vs used. I won't be getting that Eastman warranty were I to purchase this instrument. However, does the price differential between a new 905 and this 905 (set-ups being equal)?
• Last and Final question: $850 seems a steal. But it also makes me worry I should think there's something dreadfully wrong with this instrument. I'll have the 48 hour grace period, and it's a reputable seller. But should this pricetag make me wary?

Any other advice you can offer is greatly appreciated. As a final aside -- while I'm brand new to mandolin, I'm a life-long musician (trombone, guitar, others) and know the value of investing in a quality instrument to learn on. As I said, I was expecting to look at a lower price range, but if this instrument is one that will grow with me, I'm happy to invest.

Thank you all!

[chriss]

I can only speak generally about 2-pointers - I play a Weber 2-pointer with F holes, mostly in folk and Irish. I went with this instrument because it sounded best to MY ears, for my budget at the time. And I'd submit that YOUR EARS are the ultimate gauge of what's a good purchase for you. Eastman makes a great instrument. If the seller is reputable and you have a 48-hr trial, your risk is (a) cost of shipping, and (b) a flaw that you can't find in 48 hrs. Again you're the judge, but FWIW that doesn't seem to be an imprudent risk, in my own way of thinking.

Lots of debate on whether a scroll or 2- or 3- points really change the tone vs an A body. I personally have a hard time HEARING it. Others are SURE they can hear it. It makes a certain amount of sense, theoretically, that the additional mass of points/scroll might change how the instrument resonates. But that said, there is an awful lot of BEAUTIFUL music coming out of A-body mandos all over the place, and if you're after the sound alone, there it is. Not to completely toss out the visual appeal. And again, you earned it, you get to decide how you wanna spend it. Unless this instrument's a real lemon, and you have a certain amount of protection against that eventuality, you can always trade in a year, or sooner or later.

Also, assuming you've put some time in with your guitar, that would lead me to think your situation to be not-so-much a complete beginner, if that has any impact on your second thoughts about investing a lil further in this first mando. Your other/previous musical experience makes a bit more mando investment make some sense, as I look at it (for whatever that might be worth). A lot of technique transfers from guitar, and a VERY lot of "musicality" and theory transfers, from both guitar and trombone.

And so yeah all that said ... it's good to see somebody else who does mando and trombone. Beyond my own self, I know of 1 other guy, and now you're the 3rd. Maybe it's a mushrooming trend.
Alright maybe it's just a strange coincidence.
Whatever have fun with 'em.

Anyway it sounds like a nice instrument at a nice price, and the deal has enough protection that it seems to be worth a shot. Good luck with your decision and have fun with the music.

[AlexBL]

Thanks for the response Chriss!

I should mention also that the mandolin has f-holes. I'm not sure how typical that is for two-pointers, but i realize that probably has more impact on the instrument's suitability for a particular genre.

[Tim2723]

Hi Alex and welcome.

Chris pretty much covered the subject I think, but you are right that the sound hole design is much more important to the overall tone than the basic shape, and it is indeed the tone that dictates a mandolin's suitability for a particular genre. While some will argue that certain shapes are more traditional to certain genre, we can always point to superb players who break those rules.

BTW, I think I may be that other mandolin-playing trombonist that Chris mentioned. Welcome again!

[AlexBL]

Thanks Tim! Curious as to what horns you and Chris are blowing on these days. I've been using classic Conn 88H for years now -- got me through the latter days of high school, and assorted jazz, classical, and funk ensembles and bands in college.

I'm still interested in the questions surrounding Eastmans -- namely, what qualities the 900 series mandos tend to have, and whether having that warranty is worth it. unfortunately, I don't have the fortune of living near a quality mandolin vendor to try a variety of instruments.

Thanks again for your comments!

[yankees1]

I have found that the 900 series uses prettier wood but--------------this does not imply that the sound is better than a 505 series Eastman. I had a 915 Eastman but my Eastman 505 had a better sound.

[Tim2723]

I grew up with a plain Jane Conn student tenor until my last year of high school when everyone told me I just had to have an f-attachment for college. I got a King 3B with a trigger, but I never made much use of it. I sold that after school and got a Conn Symphony Series straight tenor (the classic, standard, do-everything horn for me). Now I'm looking at new horns and I'm kind of enamoured of the Bachs. No more valves and rotors for this guy.

I'll be retiring in a few years and there's a very good, long-established local brass band that's always looking for trombones, so I'll spend some Golden Years doing that.

[allenhopkins]

Seems to be a widely-held opinion that Eastman mandolins in their higher series, like the 905, are more visually attractive but don't necessarily sound better. Purchasing my Eastman mandola, I tried a 615 and an 815 and thought the 600-series had a better sound; it didn't have the gold-plated hardware or as much "flame" in the back, but I bought it for the sound. In my experience, all Eastmans seem well-made, and the differences in sound are among individual instruments. I wouldn't say "all 600's sound better than all 800's," just that between these two instruments, I liked the lower-range one better.

If there's an overall "Eastman sound," it's more clear and mid-range, than "woody" with a big "bark." I've found this seems to hold true with both f-hole and round-hole instruments. I've played my DGM-1 in bluegrass situations, and was pleased with the volume and tone, but perhaps less pleased with the "woof" on chop chords.

Individual instruments can vary widely. If you're getting a good price on what's a very nice instrument, I'd go for it, other things being equal. I love the look of two-points, though there may not be the market for them that there is for F-models and A-models. And as far as I know, the points are solid wood and pretty close to acoustically irrelevant.

[Jim]

I haven't played that Eastman but I love the way it looks. I think it's a good price too. Count me in as a Trombone player too, However I lost my lip due to a hockey injury and just have an old Conn to mess around on. Love the sound though. Good luck with your Mandolin hunt.

[AlexBL]

Thanks for all the responses!

As a brief update to those of you that have generously taken time to give advice -- I realized that even with a two-day grace period, I would have very little to compare this instrument to. So, I took a long trek out to the nearest mandolin-dealer to find out. My hope was to play other Eastman 905s to establish some sort of baseline. Unfortunately, the only Eastman in stock today was a 315. (The salesperson generously insist I try out some other instruments far above my price range, "just for fun." I almost fainted when she shoved the 1921 Gibson F-4 in my hands.)

In any case, after playing a few very different mandolins, I was struck by a realization that I have absolutely no clue what sort of sound I want from my future mandolin. Will I prefer the crisper mids and highs or the woodier woof? I set out hoping to justify what I figured would be a sound investment (no pun intended), only to come away thinking that I may well be better off spending closer to the $500 range and spend some time developing my tastes and skill to the point where I can make a well-informed decision further down the line.

The other big lesson I got today was that the Eastman 315's neck and wire frets felt great in my hands. I enjoyed the sound, so would be inspired to play if I had that particular instrument. I'll likely be fishing around for a used 505, or if I can find one used, a 605.

Thanks again for all the help! If anyone would like to reverse my recent revelation and convince me to go for the 905 anyway, I am of course willing to listen Let the MAS begin!

[nickster60]

To my ear those Eastman 305 mandolins sound pretty good and are priced right. It would give you something to play and then with time you could decide what appeals to your ear. It would so give you a good camping, beach or hot humid day mandolin down the road.

[G.B. Harriis]

My second mandolin (and favorite) is an Eastman 904d (that would be the oval holed two point). I purchased it online after playing a dozen or so different mandolins, ranging in price from $450-$3000. My price cap was $1000 and I knew I wanted an A-Style or Two Point with an oval hole. I did not play a 904 or 905 in that group. I did learn a couple of things, though...

Hands down the best instrument I played of that group was a hand made mando from a small builder whose name I did not recognize. Great tone and very playable. $2000, though so no go.

I was too nervous playing anything over that $2000 price point to really make a judgement other than that if you are nervous holding it, you are never going to play it... so why bother buying it?

I did play a bunch of "The Loar's" and Eastman's. The most playable (to me) of these was a random The Loar 500 (F-Style) that sounded great. Unfortunately the quality control of The Loar's left something to be desired... I played 3 different 400's (A-Style) that were all vastly different sounding and playing instruments, none of which I enjoyed.

All the Eastman's I played were F-Style, BUT I found the variance between instruments to be acceptable. I liked how they felt and how they played.

Having played the Eastman's, I was comfortable buying the 904d unseen. I felt I had done my homework, and while I was rolling the dice a bit on my purchase, the 48hr return window eased my mind. I love my Eastman. The only way I can see replacing it is with a custom Two-Point from David Cohen (to me, the end all be all of Jazz Mandolins).

As to the New vs Used... if you trust the shop go for the used. A good shop will stand behind any instrument they sell, or at the very least let you know if there are any flaws with the instrument that they won't cover. If you are super nervous about buying used, you could always take the mando to someone local to have them give it a once over....

Am I noticing a trend with Trombone and Two-Points (I play Euphonium and have dabbled with a valved Trombone).

[Brutus1999]

...and always, always keep in mind that someone else's opinion as to sound is very dependent on that person's own preferences, style of music, hearing ability, technique, strings, picks, and the style of music they prefer.

Others' opinion on sound "might" be very useful if making a RELATIVE comparison (more mid-range, less treble, more bass in one mando than another, for example), but when people speak in "absolute" terms about "better" -- there are way to many variables (especially, especially that person's taste in music -- Monroe or Jethro Burns?) to make "absolute" judgments about which is overall better.

[cayuga red]

I've read all of "those" threads about mandolins under this or that price range. I've read the debates on Eastman, Kentucky, the Loar. I've nipped that f-scroll envy in the the bud. This deviates from the typical "first time mandolin" question slightly; nevertheless, I appreciate your patience!


I've come across a used Eastman 905D for $850. This is about $150 more than I had hoped to spend on a first mandolin (everyone knows the ideal path is to buy an $500-700 mandolin, take a few lessons only to realize you are, in fact, a wellspring of natural talent, and to start saving up for a Collings MT.) However, I know Eastmans are well-regarded around here, and if this is indeed the deal it seems to be, I'm not sure I want to pass it up.


To that end, I've got a few questions:

• Two-points: Fine for a beginner looking to play bluegrass? Would I be correct in assuming that, like the f-scroll, these are primarily cosmetic? I've read some posts and aticles that two-points are better for jazz (which I love, and am not hoping to use my mandolin for just yet).
• Eastman 900 series: individual instrument variation aside, how does this series compare tone-wise to the 800s or other series. Warmer? Woodier? Crisper? Distinct in any other way? As problematic a question as this is, are the 900s worth more than the 800s, or is the difference primarily cosmetic?
• Eastman two-points: they were discontinued; should I take this as a warning sign?
• Eastman -- new vs used. I won't be getting that Eastman warranty were I to purchase this instrument. However, does the price differential between a new 905 and this 905 (set-ups being equal)?
• Last and Final question: $850 seems a steal. But it also makes me worry I should think there's something dreadfully wrong with this instrument. I'll have the 48 hour grace period, and it's a reputable seller. But should this pricetag make me wary?

Any other advice you can offer is greatly appreciated. As a final aside -- while I'm brand new to mandolin, I'm a life-long musician (trombone, guitar, others) and know the value of investing in a quality instrument to learn on. As I said, I was expecting to look at a lower price range, but if this instrument is one that will grow with me, I'm happy to invest.

Thank you all!

You've received excellent advice. However, if you are still concerned about the wisdom of purchasing this particular instrument, then save yourself mental anguish and contact the Mandolin Store. Dennis will work within your budget and sell you a very good mandolin that's properly set up. Good luck!

[Steve Ostrander]

+1 for The Mandolin Store. Check out The Lafferty A models.

I still like the Kentucky km900 for best mandolin under 1K. Even though there's been a price hike, I see used ones pop up for $600-$700 occasionally.

Edit: After looking at TMS web site, I see that The Lafferty A models are well out of your stated price range.

[AlexBL]

Interestingly, there's a used KM900 on the classifieds right now running $750. Very tempting, though I haven't shopped around enough to know whether this is a solid deal or not.



As it happens, I've already gotten in contact with Dennis! It could be that I end up going for a used instrument like the KM900, but I am attracted to the help I've already been given by the good folk at the Mandolin Store. At this point, I feel I can buy from them with confidence, knowing they'll help me select not only a suitable make/model, but also a particular instrument from their stock. Ultimately, I'm far more interested in the particular instrument than I am make or model.


Thanks again to everyone for all your advice! Keep it coming! (And if this $750 Kentucky is indeed a good deal, please to let me know )

[citadelpilot]

I too recently (2 months ago) bought a used Eastman (MD515L) as my first mandolin. Unfortunatley I learned to play guitar left handed many years ago, so I was locked into a LH mandolin. I just had to do a lot of research about what to get because no one and I mean no one within 500 miles of me had any LH mandolins to try out and listen to.

I love the Eastman. I say go for it. Great instrument, but I will say the Eastman case it came with is a huge piece of crap. Unfortunately since I am not the original owner the warranty is null and void and even though I have explained my situation to Eastman on a few different occasions, they really could care less and have not gotten any help. The Eastman CSR even told me to go get an Eastman fiberglass case and that a left handed F would fit... Not the case... pun intended.

BTW also a brass player... trumpet

[AlexBL]

Glad to see all the brass players! +1 for the Euphonium..I never played extensively, but I absolutely love the instrument (Holst makes great use of the horns in some of his marches).


Thanks again to everyone for their advice. I ended up going for the KM900 in the classifieds, and have only heard great feedback on the instrument. It's definitely going to be more mandolin than I need for a good few years to come, but I'm excited to grow into it. Now i've just got to wait for the darn thing to get here!