clamp on condenser mic for collings A

[MWCarr]

Anyone have advice as to microphone and attachment system. I do not have a pickgaurd and attach the strap at neck/ body area (tying under fingerboard). Would be great if I could move this rig to my fiddle when I'm playing dances. Thanks

[mandroid]

seen pictures of using a Viola chin rest clamp to attach one , with a small gooseneck..

[Ben Milne]

From your concurrent thread...

Depending on your budget I would suggest:
K&K silver bullet
Audio Technica ATM 35 (Or 350)
DPA 4099

No matter what your budget I would suggest:
Using the above brands/models as keywords, search for previous discussions on the pros and cons of each.

PROTIP: You might have more luck using google and entering site:mandolincafe.com along with your keywords as the cafe's search function will not search for words with three letters or less.

Do you have a budget in mind?
Would you usually have technically savvy people around at your shows?

[mandobassman]

It's kind of confusing seeing the same question asked by the same member in two different categories. I had a suggestion about a tie-clip mic that I have had much success with and it is very inexpensive. At the price, it's worth a try. It sounded great on my mandolin and I am currently using it with my upright bass. Info is in the other thread.

[ronwalker49]

I can't find the other thread..How about some help because i am interested in you solution...Thanks, Ron

[mandroid]

There is always the back archives on this site to look thru.


at the bottom of the page, black bar, it says 'Archive'

[jefflester]

I can't find the other thread..How about some help because i am interested in you solution...Thanks, Ron

Here's the "other" thread (both are 3 years old, BTW):
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...-Collings-MT-O

[almeriastrings]

You can also mount on the lower bout.. in fact, anywhere.

This comprises:

1) ATM mic (ATM350 in this case but PRO35 is the same)
2) DPA Violin Mount
3) 1 plastic cable tie

All reversible. Nothing gets damaged.

[JimKo]

I tried the Pro 35 and really like the sound, However, stable mounting has been a real pain. Spent $60. on the violin clip as suggested and it still falls off multiple times a gig. Good thing it has the wind screen to cushion the fall. My question is, did you have to modify the violin clip to make it stick? I was thinking about filing the grippers a hair to get it on a more secure notch.
I had been using the Bartlett mic and never had any problems with the mounting. Thanks Jim

[almeriastrings]

Never had a problem with DPA clips falling off.

You can press them pretty tight without damage to the finish.

[Willie Poole]

I listen to a lot of music and I find that when using a type of clamp on mike that the music is always so loud that you can`t hear the vocals, it seems that the new wave of bluegrass is going this way, myself I much prefer the mikes on a stand and let the pickers work the mikes by moving in and away from them, good sound men now days are hard to find when doing bluegrass, at least that is what I have seen at festivals and even on the TV shows....Just my opinion, if you like the clamp on mikes then use them but you might want to ask the audience what they prefer when you are playing...I like to hear the words of a song and then let the instruments step up to take the breaks...With a clamp on mike the instruments seem to over ride the vocals...

Willie

[almeriastrings]

..With a clamp on mike the instruments seem to over ride the vocals...

Willie

That's the fault of the person on the desk, Willie.... all they have to do is turn the relevant fader down a bit. I personally prefer a stand-mounted mic myself, but you can certainly get a clip on to work just as well. It is just a matter of knowing what mix you want and making sure you get it. The dynamics can be controlled by picking technique, as well as by adjustments at the desk. Both methods (clip on mic or mic on a stand) can sound good.. or can sound bad... both tools are good, but operator error is a huge factor in the end result - and I totally agree - finding people who really understand how to get a good mix is not easy. So many come from rock or pop backgrounds, rather than from years of listening to acoustic music and Blue Grass, and it does not always translate well.

[pops1]

A good acoustic sound person is very hard to find. Few have enough experience with acoustic instruments, but anyone with ears can hear the vocals are too quiet. I like to fade the vocals to the left and the instruments to the right, then run mono to the mains so I can raise and lower all instruments or all vocals with one slider to keep a balance easier.

[Polecat]

Here's my solution:
Attachment 144821 Attachment 144822
Attachment 144823 Attachment 144824
Attachment 144825 Attachment 144826
Attachment 144827

The Mic is an AKG CK99L lavalier mic, the "mic clip" is the rubber part of an XLR plug designed to protect the cable where it enters the plug (I'm sure it's got a proper name?!). The clamp is a viola chinrest clamp with a piece of ebony cut to fit, with a hole tapped with an M5 thread (ebony is close-grained and hard enough for this). I tapped an M5 thread on one end of a piece of 4mm brass rod and bent it to a suitable shape. The rubber "mic clip" does a relatively good job damping "handling noise" although I intend to experiment a little more as far as that is concerned.
The AKG CK99L is not an expensive mic (77€ here in Germany plus about 60€ for an adaptor), but in comparison with the more expensive AKG C411 contact mic it does a better job providing the "true sound" of the instrument. The only problem is that which plagues me with any clip-on mic - where to put the #### thing so that I don't hit it with my right hand whilst playing and still sound decent. Above the fretboard angled towards the soundboard is about the best I've managed. And although I say it myself, I find that my DIY solution looks more elegant and in keeping with the "acoustic ethic" than anything I've seen commercially available (if that matters to you - it does to me).

[Polecat]

For some reason, the photos aren't appearing in my last post - clicking on the links seems to work for me, I hope it works for others, too.

[foldedpath]

I tried the Pro 35 and really like the sound, However, stable mounting has been a real pain. Spent $60. on the violin clip as suggested and it still falls off multiple times a gig. Good thing it has the wind screen to cushion the fall. My question is, did you have to modify the violin clip to make it stick? I was thinking about filing the grippers a hair to get it on a more secure notch.

Maybe you're not setting the clamp tight enough? You should need a fairly strong pinch of the two "ears" to get it on and off. It shouldn't harm the mandolin's finish when it's on there fairly tight.

That said, you might also have to train yourself not to hit the mic or clamp while playing, even when it's on as tight as it will go. I knocked my DPA4099 off the mandolin a few times when I first started using it (very embarrassing!), because as a "Celtic" player, the tradition is often to perform sitting down. When playing seated, I can knock it off by brushing it fairly hard against my right leg if I'm not careful. So I just trained myself not to do that.

If you still can't avoid knocking it off occasionally, at least try rigging a twist tie or Velcro strip around the tailpiece or a Tonegard so the mic doesn't doesn't hit the floor. That would be the difference between a minor glitch and a major embarrassment during a performance.

[JimKo]

First of all, thanks to everyone for helping out. Willie, I always enjoy your posts. I would love to be able to go with the 1 mic system but my main place to play has us packed in a corner, with about a 5 foot clearance to a hard wall, so that is out. I find a pick up or clip on mic to be convenient and one less think to think about while playing. Besides, I like to move around a bit which is about all Sam Bush and I have in common with our musicianship.
I am going to try clamping harder, taping the mic mount to the violin mount so it can't swivel, and attaching the mic cord to my strap so the main force is level and not down. It is all a process.
Polecat, I tried the attachments and at this point they aren't working for me. I am interested in what you have done.

[Polecat]

JimKo, I have informed the admins of the problem. If it can't be fixed, I'll repost the photos.

[Barry Wilson]

I bought an inexpensive clip on condensor for my tenor banjo. the clip is small enough to hook onto most stuff. apex 565. it sounds not bad and decent price

[Polecat]

Here are the photos once more:

[mandogrouch]

There's rarely any mention of a Microvox setup, I'm not sure why. A lot of violinists use them and I have never had an issue with them. They are a lot less bulky than some of the set ups discussed here (i.e. the mic can stay attached and fit in the case). If you use a toneguard, attaching the violin type mic is easy and secure. I use one when playing outside or when a quick set up is called for. Curious if others have not had a positive experience with Microvox.

[jim simpson]

I've posted this in other threads. In case you missed it, this was my solution to my oval hole challenge. It works for me and is unobtrusive. (Countryman Isomax). I chose this after some great input from Cafe members. Sam Bush uses one (in combo with something else) above the lower f-hole on his mandolin.

[foldedpath]

There's rarely any mention of a Microvox setup, I'm not sure why. A lot of violinists use them and I have never had an issue with them. They are a lot less bulky than some of the set ups discussed here (i.e. the mic can stay attached and fit in the case). If you use a toneguard, attaching the violin type mic is easy and secure. I use one when playing outside or when a quick set up is called for. Curious if others have not had a positive experience with Microvox.

One reason why it may not be as popular (aside from distribution issues) is that the Microvox is an omnidirectional mic.

Two of the more popular mics discussed here -- the Audio Technica Pro 35 (or ATM350 variant) and the DPA 4099 -- are cardioid mics with better feedback rejection, since the back of the mic can be aimed at floor monitors. The DPA 4099 has a slightly larger edge in that regard, since it's actually a "mini shotgun" mic with very good side rejection as well as rear rejection.

Omni mics can still work as instrument mics, but they may require more careful attention to stage volume and PA speaker placement, especially indoors in a reflective environment (you can get away with a lot more when playing outdoors).

[almeriastrings]

One other thing with the Microvox is that they use a non-standard PSU and rely on RCA connectors... also the line to the mic is unbalanced, and they can prove quite susceptible to induced hum and RF pickup (from nearby walkie-talkies and some other wireless gear). Independent manufacturer Orchid Electronics does at least make a phantom power and balanced output adapter for use with them that works well:

http://www.orchid-electronics.co.uk/contact_mic.htm

The big drawback, though, is what Foldedpath highlights: an omni pattern that is far more likely to feedback than a mic with a tight cardiod or super-cardiod pattern, especially if used near monitors.