Something Auld, Something Newgrass...

[lukmanohnz]

...Something Borrowed, Something Bluegrass. I just discovered this wonderful Bill Keith recording that features (among others) David Grisman, Tony Rice, and Vassar Clements. According to the liner notes, Grisman and Rice met immediately before working together on this album and it was their collaboration on this project that lead to Rice's inclusion in the David Grisman Quintet. Am I then correct in assuming that this Bill Keith album is the earliest recording of Grisman and Rice together?

[Marty Henrickson]

Michael, I don't have a definitive answer, but logic says you must be correct. I am looking at the "Milestones" timeline in Tony's biography, Still Inside, and the entry reads as follows:

Early March 1975........Tony meets David Grisman during a recording session for Something Auld, Something Newgrass, Something Borrowed, Something Bluegrass, Bill Keith's first album for Rounder Records.

Presumably, if they had played on an album together prior to this, they would also have met.

[lukmanohnz]

Michael, I don't have a definitive answer, but logic says you must be correct.

Thanks for the confirmation, Marty!

[Marty Henrickson]

Thanks for the confirmation, Marty!

You're welcome! I failed to mention that I also looked at the discography and saw nothing to suggest that Dawg & Tony had recorded together prior to Brad Keith's album. That makes SA,SN,SB,SB something of a historic album. I really should buy that, soon.

[lukmanohnz]

I really should buy that, soon.

Having listened to the album twice through now and ready to cue it up for a third pass, I would heartily endorse you adding this recording to your collection, Marty! Many of the vocal numbers make me think of Old and In the Way's first release, probably because of Vassar's wonderfully loose and inventive fiddle work. And Grisman's breaks are sublime as usual, while Tony Rice's virtuosic fretwork is on display on every track.

[banjoboy]

Michael, I don't have a definitive answer, but logic says you must be correct. I am looking at the "Milestones" timeline in Tony's biography, Still Inside, and the entry reads as follows:



Presumably, if they had played on an album together prior to this, they would also have met.

I thought that I read something many years ago that three albums were recorded in one weekend, all at the same studio with the same musicians. The albums were Something Auld...., Tony Trishka's Banjoland Album, and the Grisman album.

[Marty Henrickson]

Michael, who all sang on that album?

Banjoboy, that is some weekend!

[swampstomper]

Jim Rooney (I'll Stay Around, Pain in My Heart, Detour?) and Al Jones (No Expectations, Detour?). Rice does not sing on this!!

Rooney was Keith's early musical partner but I must say his interpretations of F&S don't appeal to me.

A really nice cut (no mando content) is Kenny Kosek playing New England-style backup piano to Rickett's Hornpip.e

[AlanN]

Didn't Banjoland have some Rice phase shifted guitar on it? Around that time, a live cut/show was recorded that I have on cassette somewhere of Dixie Breakdown, with Trischka, Grisman and Buck White, maybe Vassar, too. Unreal.

[lukmanohnz]

Michael, who all sang on that album?

Banjoboy, that is some weekend!

Marty - Jim Roony sings on all vocal tracks except Pain In My Heart, sung (superbly) by Al Jones. There are no harmonies on the album.

Banjoboy - Sadly it looks as though Trischka's Banjoland is out of print and in limited availability on the used market in vinyl only. It's not listed in the iTunes library. Looks like the Grisman album you are referring to is the David Grisman Rounder Album. That's in my collection and one of my favorites. I will take it out for a spin as soon as I can get this Bill Keith earworm out of my head.

One amazon reviewer of the Grisman album mentioned that Tony Rice also released an album with the same lineup of musicians but couldn't recall the album's name. I probably own it, but will need to dig through the bins to figure out which one it is. I wonder when THAT album was recorded. Comparing the Grisman and Keith releases, I would say that the tunes on the Keith album seem less rehearsed and tight as compared with those on Grisman's album. No matter - it's all wonderfully adventurous bluegrass of historic significance.

[Mandoe]

Something Auld, Something Newgrass, Something Borrowed, Something Bluegrass is my fav all-time BG recording. Keith is my fav BG banjo picker. Listen to a similar version of Auld Lang Syne played by Fleck on Dawg's Acoustic Christmas. I have spent many hours trying to interpret DG's mando on this recording. No Expectations, from the Stones, has become a part of my song rep. I personally love Rooney's diff take on these tunes.

I too read somewhere once that Dawg and Rice first met during the recording of Trischka's Banjoland. Might not have been much before the recording of Something Auld, Something Newgrass, Something Borrowed, Something Bluegrass if they were recorded on the same w/e! BTW I would be interested in a digital version of Banjoland if anyone has one to share.

Thanks!

[lukmanohnz]

Something Auld, Something Newgrass, Something Borrowed, Something Bluegrass is my fav all-time BG recording. Keith is my fav BG banjo picker. Listen to a similar version of Auld Lang Syne played by Fleck on Dawg's Acoustic Christmas. I have spent many hours trying to interpret DG's mando on this recording. No Expectations, from the Stones, has become a part of my song rep. I personally love Rooney's diff take on these tunes.

I too read somewhere once that Dawg and Rice first met during the recording of Trischka's Banjoland. Might not have been much before the recording of Something Auld, Something Newgrass, Something Borrowed, Something Bluegrass if they were recorded on the same w/e! BTW I would be interested in a digital version of Banjoland if anyone has one to share.

Thanks!

After all this discussion, I found a used copy of Banjoland on vinyl and ordered it. That was $13 well spent! Side 1 is pretty much all newgrass - and phenomenal newgrass at that - while Side 2 (which I'm only partially through as of now) includes drums, electric guitar, and compositions that move far enough afield of bluegrass that I would characterize them as closer to jazz - certainly pointing strongly in the direction of Bela Fleck's subsequent work with the Flecktones (which makes sense since Fleck was a Trischka protégé).

But here's the kicker - according to the album liner notes, Side 1 (which is the side that features Rice and Grisman) was recorded in November 1975, months after the Still Inside-quoted March 1975 recording date of SA, SN, SB, SB. So it would seem that the Keith album is very likely the first permanent record of Rice and Grisman performing together. For me, this has something of the same significance as the day John met Paul...

And now, I propose a write-in campaign to Rounder to have Banjoland digitally remastered and released on CD!!

[JAFO]

Sorry I JUST found this thread. I could have asked David about it Friday night when he signed this very CD for me. I explained that it was this CD that inspired me to buy and begin learning to play the mando. When he looked at it, he said "Wow, I haven't seen one of these in 30 years." I said "you really should plug it in again." He turned to Bill and said "Did I really play on this one?" Bill said, "Yeah Gris, it was some pretty good stuff."
This is my all time favorite for banjo and Mando. I have gone through it probably over 200 times in the last 6 months just studying techniques. It's a gem.
I will see Bill again tomorrow night and try to remember to ask him about it.
Tom

[lukmanohnz]

Sorry I JUST found this thread. I could have asked David about it Friday night when he signed this very CD for me. I explained that it was this CD that inspired me to buy and begin learning to play the mando. When he looked at it, he said "Wow, I haven't seen one of these in 30 years." I said "you really should plug it in again." He turned to Bill and said "Did I really play on this one?" Bill said, "Yeah Gris, it was some pretty good stuff."
This is my all time favorite for banjo and Mando. I have gone through it probably over 200 times in the last 6 months just studying techniques. It's a gem.
I will see Bill again tomorrow night and try to remember to ask him about it.
Tom

JAFO - thanks so much for sharing this anecdote, and please do let us know if you learn any more from Bill! I still haven't taken SA,SN,SB,SB out of my CD player. The more I listen to this recording, I hear more subtleties in the harmony, rhythm, dynamics, etc. this is really awesome music. Banjoland is now in equal rotation with the Keith CD. I have to amend my earlier comments about the Trischka album - side 2 does have some jazz-inflected moments, but there's a heavy bluegrass/newgrass influence all the way through.

[JAFO]

Marty - Jim Roony sings on all vocal tracks except Pain In My Heart, sung (superbly) by Al Jones. There are no harmonies on the album.

........

Funny, I just re-read this thread and recalled Bill telling me that Pain In My Heart was never planned for this album. Al had stopped by the studio to watch the recording session and while they were on a break, they did this one just for fun. It came out so nice, and Al is such a natural talent, that Bill decided to record it and add it to the album. Something I am very glad he did. By the way, Jim and Bill are still close friends and play together a few times a year. The last time I believe was at Joe Val this year when they both recieved the Heritage Award from the Boston Bluegrass Union. I saw some video from that event and the music was good, although it was right around the time he had surgery on his left hand.
Tom

[JAFO]

Great night down at the club tonight, as I type this the guys are probably still jamming even though most of us were still trying to recover from Grey Fox. Anyway, I only had a few minutes to chat with Bill because he was entertaining tourists during the break, after the gig we had a little time. Bill tells me that Tony (Rice) and David first met when they did this album. Shortly after that David was recording in Nashville and Tony (Trischka) heard about it and jumped on a plane and flew down. He put some quick arrangements together and asked David if he wanted to keep the session going and cut another record with Tony. So two albums in one weekend (or a few days) seems feasible, but Something Auld was not one of them. If there was a third record to come out of that second session, Bill doesn't know about it. The only guy besides David who could add more to the fable is Tony and I won't see him until October. It's not likely I will remember this thread by then. It's a shame, I did see him of Saturday and probably could have asked if I didn't have my mouth hanging open because he remembered me.
Anyway I hope this fills in a blank or two for those who find this stuff interesting. I just love the CD, how it got made is not quite as important. I wish Rounder would re-release it if they haven't sold the rights. Incidentally, Bill was impressed that a bunch of Mando players here would even pay attention to that CD. I passed along your compliments.
Tom

[Marty Henrickson]

I (finally) downloaded SASNSBSB yesterday. I'm enjoying it so far, still kind of "absorbing" it, so to speak.

One question: did Tony play all of the lead guitar on this album? There is a guitar solo on one song that surprised me a bit, with a 50's rock / boogie-woogie-ish feel to it....I can't remember which song at this point, but I'll try to update when I get more familiar with the album. This is one of the major downfalls of the digital download, no liner notes, generally speaking.

[JAFO]

Let us know which tune, I'm sure we can figure it out. If not, I have a 'resource' to settle it. Jim plays some neat licks, as does Tony, but their styles are quite different. Working the night shift tonight and don't have my copy here at the office.
Tom

[Marty Henrickson]

Thanks, Tom. I'm doing some "focused listening" now, to try to remember. Just noticed that "Green Mountain Hop" sounds a lot like "Black Mountain Rag". "Farewell Blues" and "Caravan" are blowing my mind right now!

I can't find the particular solo I was talking about. I was listening to this and one other new purchase on my mp3 player on random while doing some outdoor work yesterday, so maybe I hallucinated the solo due to the heat! Or, maybe the solo was on the other album...but I didn't think so, because it was more of a jazz / blues thing (Cafe' member Marc Woodward's excellent Bluemando). I'll let you know here if I figure it out.

PS - I understand night shift. I just got done with a seven-day stretch of night shift Wednesday morning....still trying to recover...:p

[lukmanohnz]

I (finally) downloaded SASNSBSB yesterday. I'm enjoying it so far, still kind of "absorbing" it, so to speak.

One question: did Tony play all of the lead guitar on this album? There is a guitar solo on one song that surprised me a bit, with a 50's rock / boogie-woogie-ish feel to it....I can't remember which song at this point, but I'll try to update when I get more familiar with the album. This is one of the major downfalls of the digital download, no liner notes, generally speaking.

Marty - the album credits list Jim Rooney as performing 'vocals and rhythm guitar' and Tony playing 'guitar'. There is nothing mentioned in the extensive liner notes to suggest any lead guitar parts performed by any guitarist other than Tony Rice.

[Marty Henrickson]

Thanks for the info, Michael. I never could find that solo again, anyway. I think I may have imagined it.

Great album,though. On an album this old, I almost expect there to be one song that feels very 'dated' to me. That's not the case here, although some of Grisman's more straightforward bluegrass picking is on display. "Caravan" is still probably my favorite, though some of the vocal songs are really growing on me.