Can I Convert a Banjo/Ukulele to Mandolin tuning ???

[Donzen]

Hello All....

I have previously asked this similar question re... retuning a Tenor uke to mandolin and received many helpful responses......I would appreciate any feed back re this new question.....??

So... I've got this Gold Tone Banjo Ukulele sitting here that I rarely use any more and am wondering if anybody knows if I can set it up GDAE for mandolin playing. It currently has nylon strings on it. Scale length is currently set 13-1/2 inches. Twelfth fret measures from center of 12th fret to bridge 7-3/4 inches.

Of course it has a skin, banjo sound head/box. I'm wondering if anybody knows if I can move the bridge back to set it up for mandolin playing and install some nylon strings to accomplish this task? Have any of you out there attempted to do this with any success or failure?

What might you suggest for string gauges in the Nylon or Synthetic products available? Any particular brand? Is this at all doable? I'm thinking the instrument might not tolerate steel strings whatsoever - even the lightest available. I'm worried about the neck for sure and the "skin head" being ruptured -- and then there's the intonation problems as well.

Is this something I might pursue?? Or should I forget about it entirely..?

Many, many thanks for any comments/suggestions,

Donzen

[John Flynn]

This was recommended to me by a uke builder and it sounds strange, but it has worked great for me: On my 14.25" scale uke I take the 4, 3, and 2 strings from a cheap classical guitar string set as the GDA strings respectively. Unfortunately, the classical guitar E string will not work as an E on mando-uke. For the E, I use .04mm, 20 pound test, monofilament nylon fishing line. You can get a spool of the fishing line that would last you a lifetime for a few bucks at any sporting goods store. Surprisingly, it sounds every bit as good as the other strings. I only change the E when it breaks, which has happened, but not often. The plain nylon D and A will last a very, very long time. They don't get dull as easily as steel strings. I buy single wound G's and replace the G when it sounds dull. FYI, all the strings take a lot of "stretch time" after you put them on, before they settle down. You will have to move the bridge around to get the intonation right on the G and the E. The middle two will be somewhere in between.

[mandroid]

Ive used Martin Baritone Uke strings, for the low G D A & one from the Soprano sets for the high E

[Donzen]

hello John Flynn;......a question for you,....is your 14.25 uke a solid body TENOR uke that you converted? My main concern is the "skin head" currently on my instrument and am wondering if it would survive such an installation as you performed on your instrument.

I like the idea of the 20lb fishing line however, and am gonna log it in my memory to do that when and if I do the conversion.

For Mandroid....question -- did you do your conversion on a solid body uke?? Soprano, Tenor or Baritone??

Many thanks to both of you for jumpin' in on this dilemma.........Donzen

[John Flynn]

It is a RISA electric solid body uke. The 14.25" length puts it in between a soprano uke and concert uke. A tenor uke would be longer, like 17". Since your instrument is somewhat shorter, my string solution would result in less tension. Also, four nylon strings should not create enough tension to hurt any modern fretted instrument in any way.

The way to make sure, though, is to watch the depression of the bridge into the head as you tune up. Lay a straight edge on the head across the front of the bridge and measure the depression in its current tuning. Then try the mando stringing, monitoring the depression as you raise string tension. If the depression starts to exceed the original measurement significantly, then don't continue. But my bet is that it won't be a problem.

[Donzen]

John Flynn....Any suggestions on gauge dimensions for the GDC strings? I will try the fishing line approach too i think

[Donzen]

I meant in previous message GDA

[allenhopkins]

...I'm wondering if anybody knows if I can move the bridge back to set it up for mandolin playing and install some nylon strings to accomplish this task?...

You're still going to have to deal with the shorter ukulele scale. Moving the bridge will throw your intonation off, as the instrument's scale and frets are designed for the current bridge location. You may have to tweak bridge placement because of the difference in diameters between ukulele and faux mandolin stringing, but you can't move it to the same distance as "standard" mandolin scale.

[John Flynn]

Donzen

I just measured the set on my uke with my micrometer and they measure:

G (wound) .030 Being wound, it is actually smaller than the higher pitched A - the nylon strings are a bit different that way.

D (plain) .037

A (plain) .030

E (plain - the .04mm fishing line) .0155

I don't think you need to be that precise, though. I would just start with any cheap set of classical strings and adjust from there. I would also like to underscore Allen's comment: You don't move the bridge to change scale length. You move it to set intonation. The scale length is based on the fret spacing. You can't change that without a new fret board. Your 13.5" scale uke will be a 13.5" scale mando banjo (give or take a little), but that is OK. There is nothing magic about the mandolin scale being 14", there are all sorts of variations out there.

[Jim Garber]

Is there any reason not to use these Aquila strings for mandolin tuning?

[John Flynn]

The Aquila strings would be a fine way to go. That set just wasn't around when I started doing this, so I had to improvise. Also, with the cheapest shipping, the Aquila set would cost $13.86 from Elderly and you'd have to wait up to a week to get it. I can run by my local music store and get a cheap acoustic guitar set for $4.00 and I can run by WalMart and buy the fishing line (enough to last a lifetime) for $3.00 and have my instrument set up today. The two approaches are just alternatives.

I also should mention you may need to adjust your nut and bridge slots for the new string widths, using a small round file. I use torch tip cleaners to size the slots and then AAA steel wool to smooth it out. Make sure the G slots are really smooth. The winding can tend to grab.

[Tim2723]

Is there any reason not to use these Aquila strings for mandolin tuning?

That is just what I was going to say. I've used that set on my own Gold Tone banjolele. It avoids all these difficulties. I haven't changed the instrument's slots, but I haven't decided to keep the tuning this way yet. It works for experimental purposes. You will not move the bridge location except to fine-tune the intonation. The scale length is a set parameter.

[AKmusic]

Yeap. The Aquila Nylgut Strings worked fine on my wife's banjo uke. Difference in scale lengths betwen the instruments are not significant. And - as was mentioned - where you place the bridge gives you the correct intonation for that instrument - regardless of whether you are trying to string it as a uke or mandolin tuning. What you end up with is essentially called a melody banjo.

[mandroid]

For Mandroid....question -- did you do your conversion on a solid body uke??

It's a restring of on 'kawlija' my spruce 'headed' banjo uke. with a 35cm scale..
the Martin-bari-prano mix is cheaper than Aquila
and advantaged because I didn't have to wait for UPS to ship
from a sole source out of state. Ie local buy..