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Thread: Hand cramps?

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    Registered User Doug Edwards's Avatar
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    Default Hand cramps?

    Anyone experience hand cramps form all this carving and sanding? Both of my hands have been cramping lately and it's no fun. They tighten up into a loose fist and are very painful. Taking a sick day today.

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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    You have a lot of company, Doug. Age, pain, overwork- these are some of the reasons motors and CNC's were invented.

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    Registered User Doug Edwards's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    Well, the fifties have not been very good to me. I looking for better times after I turn 60 in January.

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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    Yeah, this getting old @#$%^ is not for sissies!
    EdSherry

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    Registered User Rob Grant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    Handcramps, "triggerfinger," thumb joint pain... got 'em all after years of carving, scraping and sanding. The workmanship comes with a warrenty, but not the worker!<G>
    Rob Grant
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    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Edwards View Post
    Anyone experience hand cramps form all this carving and sanding? Both of my hands have been cramping lately and it's no fun. They tighten up into a loose fist and are very painful. Taking a sick day today.
    I assume it has been pretty hot there -- are you adequately hydrated? Conversely, have you been taking a little salt from time to time to keep your electrolytes up if you've been drinking a lot of water? Just throwing that out there. Next time you cramp up take a little salt and wash it down with water and see if that helps. Something to consider -- if this just started the cause must be something that has just happened.
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    Hi Doug - I'm 7 years ahead of you,i'm 68 Jan 14th next. Unfortunately,it's simple ageing that causes so much of our pain as we get older.We loose flexibility in our joints/muscles & tendons & simple things become a source of pain if we 'overdo it'.The secret is to revalue your limits as to how much you can do before it gets painful,& if it starts,back off or you'll regret it. Your work has involved a lot of 'gripping tools tightly' & over the years it's bound to have an effect. A neighbour of mine years back was a bricklayer.That involves picking up & placing 100's of bricks per day. He suffered from Dupuytren's Contracture in his left hand ( fingers curled towards the palm of the hand & 'locked'). He told me that it was very common in his trade. We can only take so much wear & tear before 'something has to give'. When it does,take it easy(er). I suffer from sever back pain,although sometimes it's not too bad. In my previous home,i had a very large garden which i certainly miss. I tell myself i'd love a garden like that again - i surely would, but could i mow an 60 x 80 ft lawn,dig over & weed the borders & edge the lawn ??. That's when i tell myself to 'get real'. I'd be in a back brace for a year if i even tried it !!!.One of the wisest things we can ever do,is to realise our limitations, especially our physical ones.Pain is when our bodies tell us ENOUGH ! - so take heed,
    Ivan
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    I am in my 70s and play and work on mandos every day. I don't think there is a comparison between you and a brick layer. He laid bricks for 8 hrs per day for a lifetime of work. You, I assume are a hobbiest who does it a few times a week or a few hours per day... I too have had hand cramps and still get them occasionally from playing and woodworking, building and repairing mandolins and banjos. But using my hands for roughly 5+ hrs per day building and playing I have reduced the pain to almost nothing, or only very occasional pain from cramping. At one point I complained to my MD about the pains and cramping and he suggested it was natural. Obviously if one is over-using their hand muscles cramps are possible and likely... But exercise of the hands is good to retain or gain flexibility and hand control.

    Clearly this problem should be mentioned to your physician but I doubt that it an unnatural phenomenon.
    Bart McNeil

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    Registered User George Roberts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    Cramping is a muscular phenomenon, and is not really related to joints, arthritis, wear and tear, etc. Excessive or unusual use can bring them on, but it would be pretty unlikely to be secondary to an electrolyte imbalance, (or at least one requiring sodium.)
    On the other hand (so to speak,) the cramping can often be alleviated by taking calcium. The next time you're getting cramps try chewing a couple Tums. Its one of the fastest ways to get the calcium into your system.
    George

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    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    My insight into cramping (big problem for aged old me) came when I was informed that taking analgesics like ibuprofen, which acts as a diuretic, makes you lose potassium. So I take potassium, the citrate form that comes in little caps at the health food store. The effects are almost instantaneous, which speaks to an electrolyte issue. All I know is: it works great. Like calcium, it's cheap, easily found, and harmless unless you really blow it.
    .
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    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    Bananas and skim milk (or any milk, if you don't mind the fat content). Potassium and calcium without taking pills.

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    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    It takes 3 caps of potassium to do the job for me; the equivalent in bananas (which I don't care much for anyway) would be several dozen. Yecch.

    An extremely efficient calcium hit is Tums antacids. Never did much for cramps for me though.
    .
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    For relaxing and detoxing the muscles you can warm them up in hot water bath with epson salts and stretch them. If you have a paraffin bath that is a great way also.
    Breedlove Quartz FF with K&K Twin - Weber Big Horn - Fender FM62SCE
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    Registered User Doug Edwards's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    I started the calcium a few days ago. I guess I'll need the potassium as well. Thursday they cramped up and I had to force them to open, Nothing since Thursday though, maybe we're on the right track. Really serious when it effects your playing.
    Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    Doug don't ignore sodium.

    Hyponatremia is the condition of low serum sodium ion. Cramping and loss of normal motor function is the typical response to physiologically lower serum sodium concentration. Sodium the major serum (extra-cellular) cation and it does not freely equilibration with cellular sodium(e.g., via osmotic pressure) -- rather the levels are controlled by "cellular pumps" and homeostatic concentrations are required for the proper physiologic action of muscle cells.

    There is not a great range of tolerance either -- normal serum sodium levels should be at least 135 uEq/mL (probably less than 150) whereas severe effects can occur when it drops below 120 uEq/mL.

    Most of the time hyponatremia results from dilution -- excess water consumption or inappropriate levels of diuretics rather than loss of sodium -- but highly stressed athletes can experience excess sodium losses.

    Hyponatremia is most often a complication of other medical illnesses in which excess water accumulates in the body at a higher rate than can be excreted (for example in congestive heart failure, syndrome of inappropriate antidiuretic hormone levels.

    But sometimes it may be a result of over hydration -- e.g., drinking too much water in hot weather. Sometimes physiological functions e.g., the antidiuetic hormone can cause water excessive water retention and which also dilutes the serum sodium to sub-physiologial levels -- cramps are an early sign of this -- later loss of muscle function and delirium can follow.

    But while not common excessive physical activity can also induce hypernatremia. Not common but also it is not as rare as you might think -- IMO. Last summer we had a couple of weeks of 95+ heat and I was doing some landscaping for 4 or 5 hours on an apartment we were trying to sell.

    I over did it and by the time I got home that afternoon I was in trouble --my hands and legs were cramping both sides of the body -- I recognized the problem and took half teaspoon of table salt in a glass of warm water and in less than 20 minutes I was "normal" again.
    Bernie
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    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    Whoa. Try that again in English?
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    Yes, by all means, try salt—it's cheap, last I heard. And see how well it works.
    .
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    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    I guess I got carried away.

    Some years ago we almost lost my Dad due to low sodium -- never did find to cause in his case (of course being 94 did not help) but the situation caused me to review in detail all the biochemistry that I learned (and partly forgotten) while getting my Ph.D. back in the '70's.

    The bottom-line is in this hot weather we can easily induce temporary levels of low serum sodium by excessive perspiration (I'm talking about your clothing soaked in sweat) and/or drinking too much pure water -- the combination is especially dangerous. Need to refresh with sports drink having balanced electrolytes in it -- not water.

    The low blood sodium can lead do severe cramping especially the extremities (hands, feet, legs).

    If a person pushs too far much more serious things can happen including electro-physiological issues like convulsions, delirium, and even death.

    So thinking Texas is hot in the summer I just want to throw out there the possibility that Doug might have been in such a situation from working outdoors for example and not taking in enough salt.
    Bernie
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    From Bart - "You, I assume are a hobbiest .....". I'm pretty sure that this is Doug's full time job,unless running 'Hill Country Stringworks' is his hobby. My ref.to 'bricklaying' was purely to show that constant tension/pressure ,however caused,can eventually build up to a point where it causes pain,which seems to have happened to Doug.He did the right thing in backing off & resting,that's what our bodies tell us to do via the pain. If you 'push it' & carry on even if you're suffering some pain,eventually, the pain will persist outside the activity that caused it - that's when you're in real trouble,
    Ivan
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    Registered User Doug Edwards's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    Thanks Bernie. Ill watch the salt. I've been told yard work won't kill you, but why take the chance.
    The cramps began while I was working through a good size group of armrests. I usually sand 120 - 320 grit in the finishing stage. I do this quite fequently and it could be the source of the cramps as well as the above mentioned nutritional factors. I'll admit I do have poor nutrition habits. A high intake of Dr Pepper for one, which I have reduced and replaced witrh water recently. Taking Calcium daily and eating bananas. Rested from that sort of activity over the weekend.
    So far so good.

    Thanks Ivan

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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    If that is the case Doug, hyponatremia would probably be a long shot in your case unless there is a underlying factor developing -- might take a look and see what where your normal serum sodium level is --- most likely done last time you had a physical. But muscles can also cramp from fatigue also -- seems more likely that is what you are dealing with. If you normally run serum sodium on the low side perhaps you are more susceptible. And as noted age as a lot to do with it as mentioned early on in the string. I can personally attest to that -- but you're still on the young side!
    Bernie
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    Let your food be your medicine. If you have a diet that contains alot of veggies and fruits you will get alot of the nutrition that you need to fight off the aches and pains. Every day I make a smoothie in my blender that contains carrots, fresh baby spinach, bananas, blueberries, flaxseed, grapes, water and a scoop of vanilla ice cream. If I have strawberries around, or apples, oranges, wheat germ...anything that is a living food, I throw it in there. It is delicious, makes about 3 eight ounce glasses. Very filling instead of a meal. Try this for a week or two instead of popping pills.

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    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmando View Post
    Let your food be your medicine. If you have a diet that contains alot of veggies and fruits you will get alot of the nutrition that you need to fight off the aches and pains. Every day I make a smoothie in my blender that contains carrots, fresh baby spinach, bananas, blueberries, flaxseed, grapes, water and a scoop of vanilla ice cream. If I have strawberries around, or apples, oranges, wheat germ...anything that is a living food, I throw it in there. It is delicious, makes about 3 eight ounce glasses. Very filling instead of a meal. Try this for a week or two instead of popping pills.
    I would hardly call taking a bit of salt in glass of water as "popping pills" -- salt is kind of essential to life on earth as we know it. Making a straw man to beat on? Sheesh!
    Bernie
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    I in no way was commenting on salt in a glass of water...I didn't even read that post. I am saying that we need all kinds of micronutrients, salt included, that people rarely get unless they eat alot of fresh fruits and vegetables. An easy tasteful way of doing that is blending them all in a smoothie...and have a glass of salt water on the side if you want. When I referred to pill popping I am referring to the advice he will get from a typical physician.

    http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articl...essential.html

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    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand cramps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmando View Post
    I in no way was commenting on salt in a glass of water...I didn't even read that post. I am saying that we need all kinds of micronutrients, salt included, that people rarely get unless they eat alot of fresh fruits and vegetables. An easy tasteful way of doing that is blending them all in a smoothie...and have a glass of salt water on the side if you want. When I referred to pill popping I am referring to the advice he will get from a typical physician.

    http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articl...essential.html
    I certainly agree with you on value of fresh produce and micro-nutrients. Like everything else keep them in perspective. Selenium is a micro-nutrient and small amounts are essential -- too much however is toxic and leads to increased incidence of various chronic diseases. For example, many years ago my lab (former lab) in collaboration with some researchers at the Japanese National Cancer Institute demonstrated the excess dietary selenium increased the levels of polycyclic hydrocarbon bound to mammary gland DNA of rats in a dose-dependent manner -- everything in balance is the answer.
    Bernie
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