the demise of the pick guard

[Jim Nollman]

A local Luthier is working on an F5 I recently purchased. He asked if I wanted him to build me an ebony pick guard which, since (he primarily builds guitars) to his eyes it seemed lacking.

I told him that, because F5 mandolin strings sit so high off the body, I couldn't recall ever actually striking the body with a pick.

However, my current working mandolin, has what luthier Ben Wilcox refers to as a "finger rest". It's basically a miniaturized floating pick guard. It's obvious that Ben spent some time designing it to stay completely away from the sound hole. I do use it as a finger rest, and have grown accustomed to planting my pinky on it while cranking out the notes.

Today I did a little bit of research on the Mandolin Bros website, examining many mandolins to compare pickguards. I noticed that just about every mandolin built before the year 2000 has a pick guard, almost always big and plastic and to my eyes ugly. It made me wonder if anyone actually thinks its a good acoustic idea to feature a big piece of plastic blocking a sound hole?

Almost all the instruments built after 2000 lack a pickguard. Of those newer instruments with pickguards, almost every example is consistently smaller than those prior to 2000. If the instrument is post 2000 and also handmade, the pick guard is almost always built of real wood.

A lot of luthier's hang out here on the Cafe. I'm curious. Did you stop building pickguards because customers suddenly started declaring they didn't want them? Or was it an innovative builder's design choice, which soon spread to all the other builders?

More to the point. Are these modern smaller pick guards currently designed to serve as finger rests? Or do you NOT make a distinction between pickguards and finger rests?

I've decided for now, to forgo a finger rest on my new acquisition.

[sunburst]

Starting in about 1988 (pre 2000) or so, I've only put pick guards on mandolins at the customer's request. (They're all "finger rests" regardless of size, as I see it.)
When I started building mandolins, the usual process for players was to buy a mandolin with a big plastic pick guard, then take it off and leave holes in the instrument where the fasteners were. I figured if most people were going to take them off anyway, I'd just start them off without a pick guard and add one if they wanted it. That way, unused, unsightly hole is the mandolins are kept to a minimum.
As for sound, there really doesn't seem to be much difference with or without a guard, but word had it (maybe still does?) that a guard blocking part of a sound hole is blocking sound. (I suppose they envision sound flowing forth straight out of the holes and crashing into the pick guard, maybe bouncing back and causing all manner of mayhem... I shudder to think..., but that's not how things work.)

[peter.coombe]

I agree with John in that a pickguard does not seem to make any difference to the sound. I always provide a pickguard, but it is smaller than the Gibson pickguards which I think are far too big. My pickguards are made of wood to complement the woods of the mandolin. Some people do remove them, but most people seem to keep them on. If you going to allow other people to play your mandolin, then a pickguard is highly recommended, especially if it is a varnish finish. Otherwise it doesn't really matter, and they can get in the way.

[djweiss]

I like having a pick guard on my mandolins...I don't plant my fingers on it, but it serves as a guide anyways.

[Rob Grant]

All you need is for one player with long finger nails to plant their digit on that soft tonewood top and you'll see the need for a pickguard!<g>

Besides, pickguards don't have to be big, plastic and ugly...

[Steve Sorensen]

As Rob indicates, as a builder, pick guards are cheap insurance for expensive finishes. I've decided to include them unless requested otherwise to help keep those stabby pinky nails away from my carefully applied varnish and shellac tops . . . and they're attractive when not built to cover a quarter of the top!







Steve

[Charles E.]

I like pick guards, here is one of mine. This is a flat top but I put one on arch tops too. I bend them on an Iron to have them closer to the body and give more pick clearence.

[Charles E.]

Here is an extreme example of the abuse a mandolin can suffer without one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1942...item43b15246ae

This mandolin has been dicussed in the eBay forum

[lenf12]

....and more evidence of abuse. I think Andy's mando convinced Grisman to put the finger rest back on his own (much more expensive) mandolins. All of my mandolins have them as I can't play without 'em.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Bernie Daniel]

....and more evidence of abuse. I think Andy's mando convinced Grisman to put the finger rest back on his own (much more expensive) mandolins. All of my mandolins have them as I can't play without 'em.

Len B. Clearwater, FL

I like pickguard/finger rests as well -- I had a mini guard put on my Sam Bush as it with came without one of course.

That picture of Andy Statman is interesting -- he is a guy who can play the strings off a mandolin with very precise and accurate picking yet he still manages to carve a new graduations in the top while he plays!

[lenf12]

I think Andy has retired his snakehead and is now playing a Kimble F-5 (?) with a finger rest (of course). I can't perceive any sonic differences between a mandolin with or without the finger rest but the protection it provides to the finish is worth it to me. My mandolins have the big plastic Gibson style finger rests except for my Kentucky KM-340s (beater) which has an abbreviated ebony finger rest made by one of forum members. I don't plant my fingers when playing but I do lightly skim across the surface of the rest as a way to control the depth of the pick stroke. Works for me.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[barry]

Statman's Kimble does not have a pickguard. If this pic is recent, the top is still fairly minty. His technique may have changed over the years. Or maybe the Kimble takes less work to get the music out.

http://www.brooklyndaily.com/assets/..._29_BK01_z.jpg

[lenf12]

Thanks for the picture Barry. That clears up my confused memory. ;-)

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Paul Hostetter]

I think Andy's mando convinced Grisman to put the finger rest back on his own (much more expensive) mandolins. All of my mandolins have them as I can't play without 'em.

That's not quite how it worked. When Andy bought that A, he was Grisman's student. Grisman was of the opinion at the time (he's come around) that pickguards interfered with the sound, and urged him to get rid of it. Statman went ahead and played without it for many years until it looked like that photo. He says it was pristine when he bought it. At the Mandolin Symposium in 2006, the two had a rather spirited(!) back-and-forth onstage about that. Grisman went to some pains to tell the assembled that he'd long since seen the light about pickguards. By the next Symposium, Andy had sold the A and gotten the Kimble.

Another thought about pickguards: Jody Stecher is another mandolinist from exactly that era and milieu who had the same idea about the sonic evils of pickguards. Sometime around 1972, at the San Diego Folk Festival, he borrowed my old A-1 for a mandolin workshop, but insisted he take the guard off - because it sounded soooo much better without it. I protested, but finally relented, telling him: one scratch and you're in the graveyard. So I'm sitting in the audience and one of the other participants is Carl Martin, of Martin, Bogan and Armstrong. He's up there and has no mandolin, so Jody generously and impulsively lent him mine. Martin, Bogan and Armstrong launched into a tune and every single downstroke, for the duration of the tune, was a swipe across the top that left a bare, shredded streak of raw spruce. By the end of the tune the top was absolutely mangled, a detail Carl Martin didn't even notice. Fully 25% of the finish on the top (not to mention a bunch of the spruce under it) was mechanically removed inside 3 minutes by one guy and a flatpick. All because of no pickguard. There are several morals to this story. I ended up having to refinish it of course, which I really don't like to do. Fortunately Jody and I are still good friends.

Here was Jody's issue as a player:



This is his Stan Miller, a profoundly great mandolin. The bare spot is from his trailing fingernails, because he often plays up the strings with the pick over the board. The pit was getting deeper and deeper, so I put this remedial guard on it:



It's on the surface covering the hole, not inlaid into it. It's worked great ever since.

A simpler thing to accomplish this end is a strategic patch of self-adhesive clear mylar. It's quite harmless, the adhesive can be loosened easily even many years later, and if you’re careful, it will lay down on a smooth curved surface.

[Bernie Daniel]

....Jody Stecher is another mandolinist from exactly that era and milieu who had the same idea about the sonic evils of pickguards. Sometime around 1972, at the San Diego Folk Festival, he borrowed my old A-1 for a mandolin workshop, but insisted he take the guard off - because it sounded soooo much better without it....

You were too nice of a guy....well in this case at least!

If it were my mandolin, regardless of who wanted to borrow it the pick guard would have stay in place -- or the mandolin would have remained in its case. One or the other.

Great story though -- I love those great mandolin myths about hide glue, varnish, pick guard covers, red spruce, and the type of neck joint.....etc

[Fretbear]

That reminds me of the true (but even worse) story of Charley Derrington kindly loaning his dead-mint Loar to WSM to use for performance while Charley carefully labored over #73987. Bill returned it with a coffee cup-sized chunk of finish ground off the center of the back from his big spiky "Bluegrass Boys" belt buckle. Thanks, Charley!

[Jim Nollman]

So what I think I'm hearing here, is that pick guards are made necessary to protect against a specific and rather destructive picking technique, which is even favored by some stellar players. This technique pushes the pick severely downward even as it pushes across the strings. And in fewer cases, some of the same people who favor this instrument-destroying technique also favor instruments without a pickguard.

Ah, too be so debonair about the basic tools of one's trade.

In an odd sort of way, this wantonly dangerous technique reminds me of the conceptual art piece i once read about, where the artist had a collaborator shoot at him with a rifle as part of an art "happening" in a gallery. The .22 bullet was supposed to miss the guy, barely, but the shooter's aim was askew, (maybe he also pushed down as he aimed) and it nicked the artist in the arm. At the press conference the artist was bleeding quite a lot, but he tried his best to keep cool about it as if was simply the price of doing his art.

I can't quite grok one of the stories here. OK. someone loans his instrument to a friend. The friend immediately pulls off the pickguard without even asking. Then, the friend lends the instrument he's just borrowed to yet another player, also without asking permission. Then the second guy takes the stage, and immediately starts destroying the mandolin with a picking technique that clearly demands a pick guard. AND...(this is where i suspend belief) the mandolin's owner watches it all happen, but doesn't intervene.

Many thanks for sharing your thoughts about pickguards affecting tone and volume. Or Not. I had been hoping Dr Cohen would chime in here about the actual acoustics involved.

Many more thanks for all your posted photos of finger rests/Pickguards. I especially like the design of the first one in the post by StevenS. I think I'll build something along the same lines. Not as a pickguard, but as a finger rest.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Well Paul - there's 'abbreviated' & then there's your 'Micro-guard'. A very smart remedy indeed !. I like the abbreviated style of pickguard,but the large Gibson style leaves me cold i'm afraid.When i bought my Lebeda,it had an abbreviated style guard on it,but i didn't like the shape. After seeing a pic.of a Tom Ellis guard,i re-shaped mine,put it back on & there it's staying as part of it's original build. Steve Sorenson's guards are the pinnacle of elegance (IMHO).Stunning to look at & funtional at the same time. I just wish mine had a bound edge to suit the mandolin,but it would possibly cost more than it's worth to get it done,
Ivan

[Paul Hostetter]

Jody, true to his old days growing up with Grisman and Statman, didn't want a guard, so this was the best cure I could come up with, short of removing his other fingers that weren't needed for holding the pick.

I personally like an elevated guard. Steve's really are superb.

[Loudloar]

The original poster commented on the demise of the pick guard, a.k.a. finger rest. As I look back over several decades I've seen the opposite trend. I see way more players today using finger rests. Back in the 1960's and 70's Bluegrass mandolin players generally did not want a finger rest. The consensus was that it hurt the sound, and after all, Bill didn't have one. I can tell you that on my 1924 F-5 there's no doubt that it dampens the E and A strings. I'm convinced that it's due to the weight attached to the end of the fingerboard rather than any blockage of the treble f-hole. Never the less, I reinstalled my finger rest several years ago. The difference in sound isn't huge and I think it looks cool.

The issue for modern builders is that it does add extra cost to the instrument, so they're inclined to include one only if it makes a difference in sales. I think we're seeing smaller finger rests due to a younger generation that's not so hooked on the traditional Gibson look.

Steve

[billkilpatrick]

I can tell you that on my 1924 F-5 there's no doubt that it dampens the E and A strings.
Steve

i had a cheapie epiphone mm-30 with a pick-guard which might have been made around 2000. i took it off and was alarmed to see it had been attached with one or two tiny screws! - can't remember. i wouldn't put one on my current mandolin because of the (shudder) drilling. i do notice pick marks, however. might be the nitro-celluloid finish but a chamois and some elbow grease erases them easily.

[billkilpatrick]

I can tell you that on my 1924 F-5 there's no doubt that it dampens the E and A strings.
Steve

interesting. i had a cheapie epiphone mm-30 with a pick-guard which might have been made around 2000. i took it off and was alarmed to see it had been attached with one or two tiny screws! i wouldn't put one on my current mandolin because of the (shudder) drilling. i do notice pick marks, however. might be the nitro-celluloid finish but a chamois cloth and a little elbow grease erases them easily.

[Jim Garber]

I bought my Flatiron A5-2 in 1983 and it came without a pickguard/fingerrest. I called Steve and he quoted a price to make one. it was not unreasonable but I never had it made. As of today, it is prob my only mandolin that doesn't have one.

[AlanN]

I saw Aubrey Haynie play one time with a shortened guard on his mandolin, looked good. When I got my Gil, I had Charlie D. build one just like it, out of a special material. Had it on there for maybe a couple of months. Took it off, never put it back on. Have just gotten used to it without one.

[Buck]

...This technique pushes the pick severely downward even as it pushes across the strings...

In most cases, I don't think it's the pick that's doing the damage, at least not all of it. It's the fingertips on the right and that are not holding the pick - pinky, ring and social fingers.

My fingers touch the top of the mandolin or pickguard there. I keep my nails short and except for light scratches, have never come close to wearing through the finish, but I don't play as much as a pro either and my nitro finishes are tougher. I touch a guitar top in the same way. It's my point of reference.

FWIW, at least one of John Duffey's mandolins had small pick guard covering wear on the top. It looked similar to the one PH showed on the JS mandolin above.