gibson pickguard clamp purchased to use as pattern

[CeeCee_C]

All -

Don't really know if I'm gloating or sharing; perhaps a little of both.

I was fortunate to come across a very clean 1911 Gibson pickguard clamp at what I would consider a reasonable price.

Personally, I like pickguards; both aesthetically and functionally. Perhaps if I played with less enthusiasm...

But the idea of drilling a hole into the side of my instruments. I'm certainly competent to do it, but I find the idea somehow offensive. And while I could use a violin chin-rest
clamp, the Gibson type is so much cooler.

Anyway, I bought this thing so I can reproduce it. I'm not going to make accurate reproductions, but my goal is to use a similar (but not exact... pattern infringement, etc.) cam-based mechanism.

I'll probably make the first from spring steel. Ideally, I'd use stainless, but it's a pain.

There's no possible way that I could make this profitable, but I like using whatever skills I have on behalf of fellow enthusiasts.

Y'think there'd be any interest in an updated version of this part?

[mrmando]

The earliest version of the Gibson pickguard clamp was in fact very similar to a violin chinrest clamp. And although this version was patented in 1911, it didn't start showing up on mandolins right away ... a quick check of the Archive suggests it came in to use around 1913 or 1914. My guess is that Gibson used up all its chinrest clamps before switching over.

Anyhow, if you can make something that's compatible with old Gibson pickguards, you might generate some interest. If it's for modern pickguards ... well, you still have to drill into the neck block, or into the neck just under the fretboard, don't you? I don't know how many people there are who, having conceded the necessity of drilling one hole, will buy a special clamp to avoid drilling a second hole.

[CeeCee_C]

I'd thought of that.

The other two holes are in relatively unobtrusive positions and are potentially smaller as well. Personally, I wouldn't mind nearly as much.

[Bill Snyder]

CeeCee_C, if you have the two holes in the neck you don't need the clamp.

[CeeCee_C]

Bill -

What anchors the long outboard edge? My 1919 Gibson has a hole at the base of the neck, perpendicular to the neck and a hole in the bridge. Then the clamp keeps the outer edge from flapping.

[mrmando]

There are several makers offering "abbreviated" pickguards that attach only to the neck. They're narrow enough and stiff enough (many are made of wood) that the outer edge doesn't flop around.

[Bill Snyder]

If you take a look at many of the modern mandolins you will notice that the pickguards are not as large and the outside edge is floating. I do not know how the high-end builders handle a larger guard. The cheaper mandolins just screw a bracket on and I suspect in that market they will continue to do that.
I am not trying to suggest there is no market for your venture, just that it might be more limited than you think.

[mrmando]

Re: patent infringement, the patent is 101 years old. You should check up on this, but if the patent hasn't been renewed (and I don't know why it would have been, since Gibson stopped using cam clamps after the 1920s), I think you may be in the clear.

[CeeCee_C]

Oh I have no illusions about there being a vast untapped market. I wouldn't dream of making them and trying to sell them - see my first post. But I would be willing to make one for a fellow mandolinista for the cost of materials. That's really all I was sayin'.

[MikeEdgerton]

If you're going to reproduce it then reproduce it exactly right down the patent stamp otherwise you won't have any market. It will be limited as it is but there will be folks that want to buy exact replacements. There are exact copies of Loar bridges made including the patent number from later than this pickguard clamp. Go into it with your eyes open. You can probably sell dozens of these in the next 10 years or so.

[MikeEdgerton]

If you really want to reproduce something that mandolin community really needs then reproduce the Waverly Clamshell tailpiece covers

[CeeCee_C]

Mike -

I think you misunderstood the purpose of my post.

I think the Gibson pickguard clamp is a cool little mechanism. I'm an amateur machinist and I'm going to mess around with the design.

I was just throwing it out there that I'm willing to make a functional but non-restoration-perfect copy for someone who, like me, wants to fit a pickguard.

[Bill Snyder]

You just might end up with some takers. If I were to put a large pickguard on a mandolin I might be the first in line but I don't have any pickguards.

[Tom Haywood]

I might get one from you, so there's one maybe.

[Rob Grant]

FWIW: Too much "hardware" for the job. I'd be more inclined to keep the weight down and go for elegant simplicity.

[G. Fisher]

I believe Steve Gilchrist is making these or having them made already. I'm not sure if they're for use on his mandolins only or if he would sell them.


I found this picture on the Gruhn page. It looks like the cam style bracket

[Steevarino]

CeCee, I don't see you getting a lot of support regarding your pickguard side clamp here, but I think that it is a good idea, especially when considering the reasons you said you would like to pursue this project. I have a business that provides parts and accessories for instrument builders and players. We have been making all kinds of pickguards since 1997, mostly mandolin guards. We make full sized ones, abbreviated ones, out of celluloid, ebony, and other exotic woods. I cannot tell you how many times I have been asked if I could either make or find the customer a bracket like this. The only thing I can tell them is to look for a new one, or see if Mr. Gilchrist would cut loose of one. However, I think his policy is to only sell them along with one of his outstanding instruments.

So, I'd say "Go For It". If you ever did decide you want to offer them for sale, I would be interested in adding them to our Pickguard Arsenal! I have been involved in manufacturing all of my life, but I have never been all that involved in metal stamping, other than some college courses (Industrial Arts major). I think that once you make the tooling, metal stamping actually requires some level of quantity of parts to make it worthwhile. Then again, it sounds like you might have other goals in mind besides profitability, but if you do go that way, let me know! I could probably sell a bunch of these!

[Paul Hostetter]

CeeCee_C, if you have the two holes in the neck you don't need the clamp.

On some iterations of pickguards, OK, but Gibsons always have always had them and I really don't think a normal Gibson guard would work without the edge support.

Steve Gilchrist found a guy in Oz, a retired machinist, who makes these clamps for him. Quite nice ones too. He's not interested in marketing them though.

I'm sure there'd be at least a small market for them. One process that I think is obvious for producing them is 3-D printing.

I see the one you have to work from has the two screwholes.



Have you thought about the alternate single bolt that Gibson used?



Whatever you end up doing, please let me know!

[Steevarino]

See CeeCee! There very well could be a market for these gizmos. Both Paul and I have found ourselves pretty deep in this sort of thing, and we both think so, anyway.

Just yesterday we made and sent a reproduction pickguard out to a customer for his early '20's Gibson A style mandolin. He was a classic example, no original clamp, and he didn't want to drill that tiny hole for a modern style side bracket. He would have bought one of these clamp-on brackets, if I had one to sell him. Jason, one of the guys here at Cumberland Acoustic, took an interest in coming up with an alternative clamp, using hardware that we already had in stock. It came out pretty good, so I took a picture of it. I'll try to retrieve it from my phone, and show it here in a bit.

[Steevarino]

I haven't posted a picture here in a while, let's see if this works...





We used the rod and anchor block that we normally use for part of this assembly (left side of picture, and a modern-style chinrest clamp for the clamping part (right side). The "tombstone' between these two assemblies was the only part we had to fabricate.

It went out yesterday, so it will be a few days before we hear back from the customer as to how it worked out for him. If it does work, we may add it to our line of products.

[Paul Hostetter]

There was an earlier Gibson clamp which used an adapted violin chinrest clamp:





You can get very similar posts, made for Hill-style violin chinrests:





I still prefer the cam type, but these work well and look right.

[CeeCee_C]

That's a nice solution. Simple, straightforward, probably relatively inexpensive to make.

However, I am the Queen of Over-Engineering.

Besides my gender-neutral interest in music, don't I have feminine hobbies?

Fast cars; vintage motorcycles; motor racing; parts fabrication in metal, fiberglass and carbon fiber

Early on, my mother made it clear by word and deed, that self-imposed incompetence or even worse, feigned incompetence, was totally unacceptable. Both my parents taught me what they knew and encouraged me to follow my interests.

So I was working on my Dad's British (Triumph, Jaguar) and Italian (Alfa-Romeo) cars (which are *so* reliable) from the age of 10.

I don't know why I'm boring you all silly with this self-disclosure, but somehow it seems important.

[Ken Waltham]

I think you should try to get it pretty close to the original. I believe people would buy them, even if it didn't have the patent date stamp.
Ken

[Justin E.]

Actually, I've contacted Cumberland Acoustics trying to find some for when I attempt my next two builds. I don't like drilling into the sides and think they look cool. I'd be interested.

[Paul Hostetter]

Justin - Steve, up in post #20, is Cumberland Acoustics.