gibson pickguard clamp purchased to use as pattern

[CeeCee_C]

Paul -

I don't "crib" references as you so unkindly stated. I pulled that pic off of Google images almost at random; choosing it because it was labeled. Perhaps the rest of your comments were colored by the perceived appropriation of your work. And perhaps I had seen your pic before. I assure you that my selection of it last night was not intended to slight you in the least.

That's not the kind of person I am. I would have thought that would be clear by now. I'd be lying if I said that you hadn't hurt my feelings.

[Bernie Daniel]

Here is a simple approach I took with a Gibson mandola I once had. You think it is hard to find a mandolin clamp! Try one for a mandola.

I just bent strip of aluminum that I scavenged from some punch-out on a computer case and then cut, filed, and bent it to fit. It simple works by friction --there are cork pads that contact the mandola.

I think I have shown these in another string but the clamp works just great and does not look bad --IMO. And anyone can make them.

And Cee Cee says no holes either!

[thistle3585]

That's a great idea Bernie. I wonder about replacing the top piece with a celluloid piece.

[mrmando]

Mandolins, with their non-overhanging plates are subject to damage from the clamp itself, and even worse from that fellow with the sharp tool. That may not be the reason Gibson made the change, but it always seemed like a reasonable assumption to me.

Well, maybe, but the cam clamp invariably scratches up the side of the instrument too.

[CeeCee_C]

Paul -

You unambiguously called me a thief and a cheat in your respective choice of the words "purloin" and "crib". In addition, I infer from your tone that you think me stupid.

Regardless of what I may or may not be, you have demonstrated rudeness that I believe to be far greater than any provocation I may have provided; a disproportionate response.

I apologize for failing to attribute the picture to you and whatever else I may have done to provoke your reaction. I do not apologize for calling attention to your rudeness.

I believe that I deserve an apology, but given the overall tone of your last contribution, I don't expect to receive one.

Nevertheless, I am replying to your comments in as polite a manner as I can muster.

PH: If you look at my page where CeeCee purloined that one illustration of mine, you can see the rest of the story. How it works, how it adjusts.

CC: Purloin - to take dishonestly; steal; filch; pilfer. When I put the search string "Gibson pickguard clamp" into Google images, yours was at the top, and what luck, it was already labeled. I did not set out to rip you off.

As far as I can tell the picture is not copyright protected. Therefore, I may have borrowed it, but I certainly did not steal your intellectual property. Had I known it was yours, I would have gladly credited you.

CC: This is needed because the clamp was designed to be used in a production environment; so one clamp could be used despite the inevitable variability in instrument thickness. See the top block to which the clamp attaches with two screws? You'd need to provide the thickness of the instrument at the exact location the clamp would be placed.
PH: No.

Individually:
This is needed because the clamp was designed to be used in a production environment
CC: Absolutely true. Made for production use

so one clamp could be used despite the inevitable variability in instrument thickness.
CC: OK. I buy the "No" in this case. But only because of the lack of adjustability of the clamp as I describe below.

CC: Clamp adjustment is provided by the following means: (1) Bending the pin/tab, affecting how tight the clamp is drawn by the cam (citing PH's article),, (2) changing the height of the cam, (2) attaching the two mounting screws at a different height on the top block, (3) shimming the foot and/or the top block, and (4) to a small extent by how much padding is used under the block and/or the foot.

This mechanism has a discrete number of closed lengths. It's a step function with the number of steps determined by the number of slots. Each closed length is determined by which slot the pin/tab in the back engages and the height of the cam when fully closed. Without resorting to some external means (above), each pin/tab-in-slot position produces one closed length.

CC: Then you'd need to be willing to either make a bunch of top blocks until you got one that was just right or be willing to make one and a bunch of shims, the design could be considerably less labor intensive.
PH: No.

CC: Fact: These clamps don't have a continuous range of closed lengths. Speculation: Could it be that the top mounting screws were drilled so as to optimize the clamping force in the fully closed position?

In your article you say "You can fine-tune that throw with the thickness of the pads on either end.". So you're using the pads as shims.

That's my premise. Now I'd like everyone who reads this to poke holes in my idea. It's not a solution, but it gets us part of the way there.

PH: If you'd read the whole piece I posted, instead of cribbing one small part, you'd be all the way there.

CC: Cribbing: plagiarism, petty theft.

Any adjustability would be courtesy of the height of that top block (which no doubt has a name).

CC: Does that make sense?
PH: No. Sorry.

CC: <REDACTED>

PH: The earlier Gibson clamp works fine. And they're really easy to make.

CC: I'm still happy to make one for the cost of the materials. Unless, by "they're really easy to make", you're offering to do so.

I apologize to the rest of you for airing this in public, but I was insulted publicly so I feel obliged to respond publicly.

Sincerely,

CeeCee

[Paul Hostetter]

Paul -

I don't "crib" references as you so unkindly stated. I pulled that pic off of Google images almost at random; choosing it because it was labeled. Perhaps the rest of your comments were colored by the perceived appropriation of your work. And perhaps I had seen your pic before. I assure you that my selection of it last night was not intended to slight you in the least.

Again, it was my photo, and my mandolin and my camera, extracted from a page I wrote years ago that explains how those clamps work, that is easily available to anyone. If you'd read it, you'd know how those clamps work, and can be tinkered with. It's been posted numerous times on the Café as this topic comes up over and over.

[CeeCee_C]

Fortunately, everyone got to witness your shameless display of rudeness.

I'm sorry i didn't ask you for permission to use a photo that i didn't know was yours.

As far as I'm concerned, I've apologized for my egregious act of photographic piracy. I consider the issue closed.

If you have an ounce of graciousness in your nature, perhaps now would be an opportune time to demonstrate it.

Time to move on.

Sincerely,

CeeCee

[delsbrother]

CeeCee, Google plainly states where the original image comes from (Paul's site, which is copyrighted). Just because you didn't mean to steal it doesn't make it any less wrong, especially from Paul's perspective.

Furthermore, I don't think Paul was being rude at all - he's simply disagreeing with you. Considering he's one of the board's most experienced and respected luthiers, I wouldn't expect him to have to apologize for having an opinion on vintage instruments.

[MikeEdgerton]

Paul Hostetter is one of the more gracious people I know when it comes to giving out information. His website dispenses information that most of us have used to accomplish repairs on vintage instruments. One can literally spend hours on www.lutherie.net digging through the gems that he has cataloged over the years. No charge to read any of it. Perhaps it's time for some to step back from the keyboard and read a little more and post a little less. I think we'll close this thread, it's gone as far as it needs to go.