Pick for ITM/Triplets

[Loretta Callahan]

Hope this is the proper forum for this. Might need to post this in the Celtic, etc. section.

I've been honing in on my pick preferences. My former favorite: D'Andrea Pro Plec ... pick is just to fat to play the ITM style that is my genre of choice. I need control, which thinner picks give me.

I seem to be favoring to the Fender Medium pick. Fatter picks just kill my ability to play ITM triplets.

I've used every pick from the V pick folks, one Blue Chip 60 something that I ended up trading away, and a gazillion others, but always come back to the Fender Medium. Problem is that the Fender doesn't have the best grip. So, it either gets too loose, or I end up with the death grip syndrome.

Thinking that a pick not fatter than a 1.2 or so .... would be the ticket. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

[foldedpath]

Loretta, this is something I've been working on for about 3 years now... making progress, but still not as consistent as I want it. And we're all different with our pick hold and everything else. So take the following with a grain of salt:

What works for me right now for Irish trad "treble" ornaments is a Blue Chip TAD40-1R, which is 1.0mm thickness, a medium-size triangle shape with two sharper points and one rounded point on one corner. For mandolin and octave mandolin I play on that rounded shoulder edge, and that gives me the most consistent ability to play Irish trebles of anything else I've tried. An Ultex 1.0 pick is almost as good for me as that Blue Chip, also playing off that rounded edge, not the tip.

Your mileage may vary... but I'd suggest at least trying a thinner pick for starters, but not too thin so you lose tone. Playing off the rounded shoulder of the pick may or may not help, it's just a tone I like to hear.

One more thing to try, is angling the pick a little more than you usually do when playing those quick ornaments (if you angle the pick at all, which I do).

Finally, there's a question of what kind of treble ornament you're trying to hit, which can determine pick choice. Personally, I don't like the sound of a mandolin trying to duplicate what a tenor banjo does with this music, where the treble ornament is the same volume as the melody note. I aim for a more percussive effect where you don't hear a distinct pitch, more like what a fiddler would call a "scratch triplet." There is no standard technique (yet) for playing ITM on mandolin, so we're all still figuring out what works.

[mandroid]

try pointy picks .. a classical players choice.. Vivaldi has lots of 16/ths passages.

you can try lots of shapes for the $35 for 1 BC.

[Mike Snyder]

My playing has all been learned by the "seat of my pants" method, so the rightness or wrongness of technique means little to me.
I play with a thick pick and triplets seem to come natural. As I see it, it's not so much an equipment issue as getting a feel for playing a pipers ornament on a stringed instrument. It's really fun to get a tune learned well then the triplets just appear like they were waiting for you to get out of the way. The tune is the thing. Getting it under your fingers is key. The triplets will fall in where they belong eventually.
Not at all saying that a thin pick won't work, just not for me.

[Steve L]

I play Irish music almost exclusively and I've been using the green Dunlop Tortex M3 jazz picks with the sharp point for a long time now. I've tried a few different things from time to time and nothing else works for me in getting the trebles to speak. I cannot play with round shoulder picks and I don't like the slap and thin tone of thin picks. It seems like a counterintuitive choice for mando playing, but the sharp point make the difference to me. I'm pretty happy with my tone.

[Shelagh Moore]

I tend to use an Ultex .73 or a D'Andrea Pro-plec for ITM... pointed end or rounded area depending on the tune and sound I want.

[liestman]

I play almost entirely Irish trad and use mostly a Blue Chip TAD40. I think the most important aspect is to not expose too much of the point. If you expose too much, the point gets buried down in the strings and holds you up. When that happens, a thin pick can get you out of there by flexing, but once you only expose a TINY bit of the pick, the thick pick works better. My first finger tip and side of my thumb are constantly brushing up against the strings, to give you an idea of how little to expose.

I would experiment with cheaper picks, find the shape and size and bevel that you like and then once you settle on that, see if something in the Blue Chip line (or Wegan or Red Bear) is right for you. For me, the shape and bevel on a BC TAD40 is ideal (and I angle my pick the "wrong" direction, so I use a left handed speed bevel despite being right handed). You can take a cheap pick and speed bevel it with 320 grit sandpaper easily enough to see what it does for you.

[Bertram Henze]

.72 Clayton spike (triangular) works for me. It has that tortoise shell sound with a spikey attack and a good enough grip. The tips wear down fast, but you get 6 of then for a peanut.

[John Kelly]

Claytons here too, Bertram, though I often use whatever comes out of my pocket! Yesterday I was playing with a teardrop-shaped one, about .75/.80, on to which I stuck two pieces of double-sided tape so that the pick stayed in place in my fingers while I was working on a couple of Scottish reels. It worked well!

[Bertram Henze]

double-sided tape

Sounds like a luthier's choice of whatever is found in the workshop
I use a little bit of pick powder each time before playing (some mixture of talcum and ground rosin) which makes my fingers sticky and has a pleasant smell, too.

[Loretta Callahan]

Thanks for all the help. The Cafe comes through again. Claytons look promising, tho' the pointy end may or may not work; scary bulldog is cute. Pro Plecs are just too fat. Interesting how fat picks work for, Mike, but not for me. Maybe I'll jump back into the Blue Chip barrel and try the TAD 40. I like a larger, thinner pick. Haven't tried the Dunlops, Steve. I'll put them on my list!

The Ultex .73 does kind of work, Richard! I go back and forth with the pointy vs rounded pick, mandroid. Might depend on how the stars are lining up. Wegans almost cut it. I like the feel, but they sound scratchy. I'll look into Red Bear, liestman.

Would love to be a fly on the session wall watching John and Bertram with two sided tape and talcum powder. I got the Dr. Duck stuff Bertram recommended. Works great on my strings, but they didn't pack it well. It arrived in a greasy box ... oh well.

Folded Path: your post really echos my thoughts and journey with triplets here. Yes, I do angle the pick. What I need to find is a grip that works both for the strum and triplet. Right now, they vary, so I'm not ready for the triplet after picking away, and I lose the triplet mojo, acquire death grip or drop the pick. That squeeze thing doesn't work for me.

I can totally relate to the percussive effect, not trying to be a banjo here, FP. It's a feeling thing for me as to where I want to put in a triplet. Scratch Triplet kind of describes what I'm aiming for. Guess the mandolin is evolving as an ITM "official instrument". Don't want to be too "unofficial". Our occasional Cafe poster, Jill, has the technique I'm going for. I'm not as aggressive, maybe because I'm in the geezer zone, lol ..... but I think I can come up with a style that's softer than some, but has a frisky edge. That's my goal anyway.

[mandobassman]

One of the nicest picks I ever used for tremolo was the Blue Chip TAD40 (1.25mm) with no bevel. I has a beautiful tone, the grip is unbelievable, and it is the smoothest feel off the strings of any pick I have ever used. Wonderful for tremolo. The two issues I had with it were- 1. It sounded almost identical to my vintage Fender Extra Heavy (mosaic color) 346. Made me think "Why did I pay $35 for this pick?". They're the same thickness, size, and shape. 2. It didn't have quite the volume I needed and I found myself having to play pretty hard to achieve the volume I wanted. But, for the things you seem to have a need for, tremolo, grip and tone, the TAD 40 would be a excellent choice.

[Loretta Callahan]

I just ordered the TAD 40, as Blue Chip has free shipping through tomorrow. It's a larger pick, which I like, but they say it's 1mm, not 1.5mm. Hmm. Well, I'll see if I like it!

[mandobassman]

...but they say it's 1mm, not 1.5mm. Hmm. Well, I'll see if I like it!

Sorry, my mistake. It is the TAD50 that I had. It is 1.25mm.

[danb]

I used clayton ultem .72 or .80 for ages. rounded triangle (3 corners) shape.

Blue Chip picks are nice & smooth for triplets too, though it's a whole different tone

Imagine yourself drawing a tiny clockwise circle, using the tip of the pick as your pencil. Work on it at a slow speed with a circle about as wide as a pencil eraser, and work on speeding up drawing that little circle..

I pick them DUD or UDU, depending on where on the beat they fall.. but it's the same motion, it's just mentally where you start the little circle

[danb]

The angle of attack goes to vertical for them too.. sometimes that's helpful to think on.. here's a little video I did ages ago

[JeffD]

I use a BC TAD60, and a technique similar to Dan, drawing a circle. Though I didn't ever think of it that way, and if I think about it directly I can't do it (like parallel parking!), but when I just play, that is how I do the triplets.

My triplets came around the same time my tremolo came, so I think they are related, or at least have neighboring apartments in my brain.

[John Kelly]

Dan, that is a great wee clip and the idea of the circular movement is spot-on! Just seeing it in print consolidates the technique.
Thanks for this.

[Loretta Callahan]

Thanks for the video, Dan. Oh, circular .... that's a new concept for me. I'll try it out. Uh oh .... I never mastered parallel parking.

Another member named John gave me a tip on how to get the pick exposure right. I may be letting too much pick show.

Postscript on the BC pick. The TAD 40 arrived and I really love it. I like the big size and the fact that it doesn't slip. I may have found my pick.

Back to practice!