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Thread: Mandolin or ukulele strung like mandolin (GDAE)?

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    Question Mandolin or ukulele strung like mandolin (GDAE)?

    Hi, I got a cheap guitar and tried to learn how to play it many times and gave up each time. So I thought maybe a ukulele might be an easier alternative. I play piano, whistle, & flute and have been playing mainly Irish traditional music for the past 2 years. So I was looking into ITM string instruments and read about mandolin and bouzouki.

    What I'd like to do is just be able to do some basic strums to accompany my whistle & flute in my recordings. Perhaps some fingerpicking but I'm not really interested in playing melody at this time, since I do that on the flute. What peaked my interest for mandolin was I saw several times that one can play simple chords with 2 fingers. That sounds easy to me.

    I don't want to invest a lot of money so I really want to go the ukulele route. I know it won't sound like a mandolin but that's OK, I like the ukulele sound too. The main question is should I tune the ukulele like a mandolin or leave it tuned in the standard ukulele tuning. It seems if I tune it GDAE there are a few advantages:

    1 - it'd be easier to play ITM keys of D & G.
    2 - I could "upgrade" to a mandolin or a bouzouki later if I like it
    3 - my daughter is starting violin this year and she could play with it without learning a new tuning. for my youngest, she's 5 and won't start violin for two years so it'd give her an introduction to GDAE tuning which would help her for violin later.

    I'm just not sure which tuning is better for strumming and chording. I've read that mandolin tuning is better for playing melody and ukulele tuning is similar to guitar tuning and is better for chords. I don't know if that's true or why it'd be true.

    So I'd like to get some feedback on all this. Thanks in advance for your advice.
    Last edited by cunparis; Sep-02-2012 at 2:21pm. Reason: Typo GDAE in 3rd paragraph

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    Default Re: Mandolin or ukulele strung like mandolin (GDAE)?

    I assume you meant to write GDAE in your third paragraph... they do make string sets to accommodate fifths-tunings on ukuleles, but the results can be sort of thin-sounding. Still, it would be a pretty cheap investment and it's easy enough to swap back to a 'normal' tuning. Personally, I think a standard baritone ukulele might be right up your alley. I think it's the easiest fretboard instrument and acts as a good springboard to, say, guitar or mandolin or tenor banjo.

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    Default Re: Mandolin or ukulele strung like mandolin (GDAE)?

    Hello Cunparis,

    That's what I do generally. I bought a charango and tuned it like mandolin on 7th frets. This worked for me through familiarity. The mandolin is strung like a left handed guitar played by the right but ascending up in octave down the strings rather than descending if that makes sense. However, tuning to ukulele Modes might be easier to strum out chordal rythyms.

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    Default Re: Mandolin or ukulele strung like mandolin (GDAE)?

    If you were looking for a melodic instrument for ITM, then re-tuning a ukulele GDAE would be a great advantage, although it would certainly be lost in a session.

    For a chordal instrument in ITM I would use 'low-G' tuning on a ukulele. The standard (assuming you're looking at a soprano or concert uke) is gCEA, where the 'bass' string is an octave higher than expected (known as re-entrant tuning). This gives the classic ukulele sound. Low G tuning lowers the G string an octave to yield GCEA. The instrument now takes on a much more guitar-like quality well suited for accompaniment in ITM.

    The two-finger chords of a mandolin (or ukulele tuned as one) are generally less satisfying than the guitar-type tunings as they are not as solid in the bass. A lot of players will use octave mandolins or bouzoukis in ITM for chording, but the sound is usually used to enhance the rhythm rather than provide the foundation. A mandolin is rarely used for chording because of its higher voice (too close to the fiddle and flute), although it is sometimes done very effectively.

    People are now doing all kinds of things in ITM and related musics, but the classic ukulele sound is not really there just yet. If I were going to do it one way or the other, I would buy a concert size ukulele and tune it in low-G tuning.
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    Default Re: Mandolin or ukulele strung like mandolin (GDAE)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim2723 View Post
    If you were looking for a melodic instrument for ITM, then re-tuning a ukulele GDAE would be a great advantage, although it would certainly be lost in a session.

    For a chordal instrument in ITM I would use 'low-G' tuning on a ukulele. The standard (assuming you're looking at a soprano or concert uke) is gCEA, where the 'bass' string is an octave higher than expected (known as re-entrant tuning). This gives the classic ukulele sound. Low G tuning lowers the G string an octave to yield GCEA. The instrument now takes on a much more guitar-like quality well suited for accompaniment in ITM.

    The two-finger chords of a mandolin (or ukulele tuned as one) are generally less satisfying than the guitar-type tunings as they are not as solid in the bass. A lot of players will use octave mandolins or bouzoukis in ITM for chording, but the sound is usually used to enhance the rhythm rather than provide the foundation. A mandolin is rarely used for chording because of its higher voice (too close to the fiddle and flute), although it is sometimes done very effectively.

    People are now doing all kinds of things in ITM and related musics, but the classic ukulele sound is not really there just yet. If I were going to do it one way or the other, I would buy a concert size ukulele and tune it in low-G tuning.
    Excellent well thought-out reply. Thank you for sharing that. I agree about the session, and I don't really have plans to play it one and if I did, I'd play the flute. Well maybe the beginner session. I just haven't memorized all the tunes and I can't play them fast. So for now I'm just happy to play them at home. And record them for friends and family to hear and to get feedback.

    You pretty much explained to me why mandolins aren't used as chording instruments.. it's not that they can't, it's because they are the same range as flute & violin. I hadn't thought of that. and that's interesting.

    Also interesting to know that while the 2 finger chords may be easy, I may end up learning the complex chords anyway. And I agree on low-G. I like that idea.

    My current thinking is this: I have one daughter starting violin this year and another one who wants to do violin (will be in 2 years). they're 6.5 & 5. so I was thinking if I get a soprano and string it GDAE then when I'm helping the older one with her violin practice, the younger one could join in. In the beginning we'll be practicing open strings and maybe the first few "frets" (whatever it's called in violin, I have no idea). so the young one could learn this on the ukulele and it'd prepare her for violin later. What do you think about that? Does it sound reasonable?

    i'd see how it goes and then probably get a tenor tuned to low-G for myself.

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    Default Re: Mandolin or ukulele strung like mandolin (GDAE)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thackeray View Post
    However, tuning to ukulele Modes might be easier to strum out chordal rythyms.
    Seems to be a consensus on this.

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    Default Re: Mandolin or ukulele strung like mandolin (GDAE)?

    Quote Originally Posted by cunparis View Post
    ...My current thinking is this: I have one daughter starting violin this year and another one who wants to do violin (will be in 2 years). they're 6.5 & 5. so I was thinking if I get a soprano and string it GDAE then when I'm helping the older one with her violin practice, the younger one could join in. In the beginning we'll be practicing open strings and maybe the first few "frets" (whatever it's called in violin, I have no idea). so the young one could learn this on the ukulele and it'd prepare her for violin later. What do you think about that? Does it sound reasonable?
    Personally, I think that it's a waste of time trying to make any other instrument stand in for the violin, no matter the reason. Indeed, I've heard many violin teachers recommend strictly against it as a serious mistake. I'm not an accomplished fiddler, so take that for what it's worth. I do know from personal experience that one of the great fallacies in the mandolin world is that the fiddle should be simple once you've mastered the mandolin fingerings, since they're tuned the same way. Nothing could be farther from the truth, in my opinion. The violin is an instrument all its own.

    Also from personal experience, I would recommend against a tenor ukulele in low-G tuning for this purpose. The concert size will match the mandolin's fretboard spacing more closely. The low tuned tenor has emerged in recent years as a substitute for guitar in preference to the baritone ukulele, but neither will substitute well for the mandolin. The low-tuned concert would be my first choice. (Only my opinion, YMMV, etc.)
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    Default Re: Mandolin or ukulele strung like mandolin (GDAE)?

    I had a beautiful Turner Compass Rose uke that came to me in low G tuning. I never really got used to the sound of it strummed and sold it. Now I wish I had tried tuning it in fifths and playing it like a gut-strung mandola. Lesson learned..

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    Default Re: Mandolin or ukulele strung like mandolin (GDAE)?

    I have a 14.5" scale electric uke tuned as a mandolin. Works pretty well. I use the 4, 3 and 2 strings from a classical guitar string set for G, D and A and .004mm, 20 pound test mono filament fishing line for the E. I'm not kidding about the E, the maker of the uke suggested it and it works great. However, I understand Aquila now makes a set just for this that is available through Elderly.

    I really like this setup. It sounds great and if you want to learn the mandolin, but didn't want to deal with the grip strength issues for some reason, it is a good alternative. The one problem you may have is that the intonation is different with this string configuration. I had to have a new bridge made for mine to correct it. You might consider a banjo uke. More volume and it has a floating bridge.

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    Default Re: Mandolin or ukulele strung like mandolin (GDAE)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim2723 View Post
    Personally, I think that it's a waste of time trying to make any other instrument stand in for the violin, no matter the reason. Indeed, I've heard many violin teachers recommend strictly against it as a serious mistake. I'm not an accomplished fiddler, so take that for what it's worth. I do know from personal experience that one of the great fallacies in the mandolin world is that the fiddle should be simple once you've mastered the mandolin fingerings, since they're tuned the same way. Nothing could be farther from the truth, in my opinion. The violin is an instrument all its own.
    That makes sense. I was just thinking that it'd be good for her to have an instrument and participate in the practice sessions, so the choice is regular ukulele tuning or fiddle tuning. Using fiddle tuning would allow me to "teach" (I use that loosely, I don't know how to play fiddle) them both at the same time. But I do understand that the uke wouldn't be a substitute for the fiddle.

    I just want to get them both exposed to music at a young age. they hear me playing my instruments almost every day so they're already into it, just unfortunately not into flute.

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    Default Re: Mandolin or ukulele strung like mandolin (GDAE)?

    OK, that's a bit different than I thought earlier. If you just want to expose the child to music, there's no real mistake you can make. The comment from teachers (that I'm just passing along for what it's worth) relates to the assumption that you can learn violin skills with another instrument. They say that's a mistake and that it's the reason that child-size violins are made. But in my opinion there's no bad way to foster a kid's interest - other than trying to force them - and the ukulele is ideal for that.

    Should it happen that she takes an interest in violin then something like a 1/16 student instrument would be in order. But don't take my advice. Leave that to a qualified violin instructor as there's quite a lot involved in fitting the instrument to the student correctly. (Seriously. They actually measure the child with a tape measure and fit the instrument to them. The tiny beginner's fiddles - they look like toys! - are traded in several times for larger and larger ones as the child grows.)
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    Default Re: Mandolin or ukulele strung like mandolin (GDAE)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim2723 View Post
    Should it happen that she takes an interest in violin then something like a 1/16 student instrument would be in order. But don't take my advice. Leave that to a qualified violin instructor as there's quite a lot involved in fitting the instrument to the student correctly. (Seriously. They actually measure the child with a tape measure and fit the instrument to them. The tiny beginner's fiddles - they look like toys! - are traded in several times for larger and larger ones as the child grows.)
    We're very lucky to have a public music school nearby. Kids get a year of solfege, then a 2nd year of solfege and during that year they get to "learn" harp, harpsichord, recorder, cello, and viola. And then they can do a second year with wind & brass instruments, or they can pick their favorite and start private lessons. And continuing solfege 1 hour/week. And best of all the school rents the violins so we don't have to worry about that. It's very nice. I started sax around 10 years old and no solfege.

    So while the older daughter is practicing I don't want the little one to feel left out. if she can join in, then I think it's good even if she's just plucking open strings.

    I think we'll go to a music store this weekend and let them play with the ukulele's and see how motivated they are.

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    Default Re: Mandolin or ukulele strung like mandolin (GDAE)?

    Wow, that really a fantastic situation for your family and the children in your community! I wish I had that growing up. Like you I started at age 10 with little to no background. In fact , my school didn't offer strings at all. We were given our choice of marching band instruments so that we could support the football team in high school.

    It sounds like you've got a good plan. Best of luck to you all!
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