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Thread: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

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    Question First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    So I'm seeking your wisdom.

    I've played guitar professionally for years but have just recently started playing Mandolin. A friend of mine who owns a studio lent me one I really like and haven't felt this bonded to playing an instrument since I fist discovered the guitar. The thing is, I went to guitar center and sam ash and thought the mandolins sucked. So I looked up the one he lent me and it's a A-style by Silver Angel Mandolins. So apparently that's a pretty good one.

    I know you can get a great used (I prefer used) guitar like a Larrivee from the late 90's for $700 easily and even if someone was a pro they would love that instrument.

    Is there a comparable Mandolin?

    I was looking at Eastman and of course would like an F-style but really want one that sounds and plays great mostly. Some I've heard sound pretty shrill and harsh on the high frequencies which I frickin' hate. I will be playing it live but can put in a pickup later. Oh, and I'm in Cincinnati if there is something nearby.

    Recommendations?
    Jim Zartman

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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    The generally accepted rate of exchange says that, quality-wise, 1 guitar dollar = at least 2 mandolin dollars. Various reasons for this (extensive hand-work, economies of scale, etc.), but it means that a mandolin equivalent to your $700 Larrivee would run at least $1400.

    In the $12-1800 range, you can find a fair number of used small-ish builder or high end Asian A-styles, especially if you peruse the Cafe classifieds. Even the occasional great deal on an F (I got a nice Jade for well under a grand a few years ago). I know nothing about the instrument market in Cincinnati, but you won't find any better selection than the classifieds here. The killer is that you have to buy without playing or hearing it live. Basically, every reputable seller on the classifieds should be willing to give a multi-day trial period, but you have to be prepared to suck up the return shipping if you send it back. Not nearly as convenient as the guitar market, but that's our cross to bear.

    Just my $0.02.
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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimzartman View Post
    So I'm seeking your wisdom.

    I've played guitar professionally for years but have just recently started playing Mandolin. A friend of mine who owns a studio lent me one I really like and haven't felt this bonded to playing an instrument since I fist discovered the guitar. The thing is, I went to guitar center and sam ash and thought the mandolins sucked. So I looked up the one he lent me and it's a A-style by Silver Angel Mandolins. So apparently that's a pretty good one.

    I know you can get a great used (I prefer used) guitar like a Larrivee from the late 90's for $700 easily and even if someone was a pro they would love that instrument.

    Is there a comparable Mandolin?

    I was looking at Eastman and of course would like an F-style but really want one that sounds and plays great mostly. Some I've heard sound pretty shrill and harsh on the high frequencies which I frickin' hate. I will be playing it live but can put in a pickup later. Oh, and I'm in Cincinnati if there is something nearby.

    Recommendations?
    Dennis of the Mandolin Store actually has more guitar than mandolin-playing experience. He's probably the perfect person to help you make your decision.

    Good luck!

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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    A decent A5 style will be a good direction.. eastman , kentucky get good revues here.

    In order to choose Neck shape preference,
    there is no substitute for hands on auditions.
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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by mandroid View Post
    A decent A5 style will be a good direction.. eastman , kentucky get good revues here.

    In order to choose Neck shape preference,
    there is no substitute for hands on auditions.
    +1

    My preference are the late 70s Pac-Rim makers like Alvarez, Ibanez, Aria and Washburn. Better intruments than the American makes they were imitating. Amd affordable, though not like they used to be as folks get on to the high quailty vs. the reasonable prices.

    Seeing as you're in da'nati take a look a/t Nashville craigslist. Bound to be some buys on there.

    Btw, my current mando is a Washburn M3SW from the early 90s. It has a K&K dual-element passive pick-up I run through a Baggs Para-Acoustic DI into the regular input jack. I run my guitar thru the fx loop input hole. My guitar has an active Baggs pick-up, so I can use the Di settings for the mando and tweak the guitar until I get a good sound out of both. Usually that means killing all the treble on the di. I hate that 'jangly, on-the edge-of feedback' sound alot of 'plugged in' mando players seem to prefer. My monitor is a Trace Elliot TA 200. The DI goes lxr out to the PA and the 1/4" cable goes to a tuner and then to the amp.

    So, I get the guitarist gets mandolin fever. My mando playing has made me a much better guitarist and has certainly improved my rhythm touch. Branching out into Mandola, Octave-mandolin, Mando-cello are great steps as the fingerings and chord forms are all the same. Once one can play the mando it opens up all the rest of that family of stringed instruments. One just has to adjust to the different scale lengths.

    Good luck in your search and growth.

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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    From reading the posts of other Cafe members who've either bought one or simply played one,the Kentucky KM900 "A" style comes out as a very fine instrument indeed. As the Mandolin Store sells them,& as a poster above says,if Dennis Vance has a good deal of experience in Guitars as well,maybe the Mandolin Store would be a good place to start. Returning to the KM900,there's more than one person on here thinks that regardless of style/price,that the KM900 is the finest of a fine line of instruments. I don't think that you'd be looking to up-grade too soon with one of those,(pic.courtesy of the Mandolin Store)
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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    I think that the mandolin version of the Larrivee might be something like a Collings MT2. You could be happy with that mandolin forever, and yet there's a lot of directions to upgrade from there.

    Of course, that's not in the price range you're thinking about, but then again, you'll see that mandolin prices are more comparable to archtop guitar prices (much higher than flat top guitars).

    I would agree with Ivan on this, and recommend the KM900. It's the best option in the less-expensive range. You should probably forget the F-style unless you come to terms with the cost of building them, and the prices luthiers need to charge to make it worthwhile to build such amazing works of art.

    That said, if you like Silver Angel F-5's then there are at least two on the classifieds right now, or you can order one from Ken directly.

    Larry

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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    Not being a mandolin expert, but as a 30+ year touring/session musician working w/a gigging, acoustic plugged-in band, presently my preferences are colored by the limitations of my experiences and exposures. Hence my recommendation of looking for a late 70s Pac-Rim mandolin. They have been consistantly good instruments for the money in my experience. Have owned and sold more than a few. Guitars and mandolins both.

    That being said if you can go the extra 500.00 the Kentucky KM900 would be worth a serious look. I certainly will if/when I get ready to take a step up. From the specs it looks to be the best bang for the buck in terms of quality, handcarved mandolins. The Washburn I have and use is purely functional and adequate. The strength of the instument is in it's ease playability and intonation not in it's tone or volume in an acoustic situation. Though I have been in plenty of jam situations with it it simply doesn't have the 'punch' to cut thru a bluegrass session. But, then again I'm not a 'bluegrass player', per se.

    Btw, pawn shops are great sources as well as CL. Again good luck. You'll know it when you find it.

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    Registered User Elliot Luber's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    I bought an Eastman 605 (an A) from Dennis at the above mentioned themandolinstore.com, and it has proven to be a great value. I have no financial interest here, but I've been very happy with the results, and teachers have commented favorably about it. Can you do better for more money? Much, it's just a matter of what you are willing to pay. As noted, you might find a small domestic craft instrument used for a little more than a new Eastman PAC Rim.

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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimzartman View Post
    ...just recently started playing Mandolin. A friend of mine who owns a studio lent me one I really like...I went to guitar center and sam ash and thought the mandolins sucked. So I looked up the one he lent me and it's a A-style by Silver Angel Mandolins....you can get a great used (I prefer used) guitar like a Larrivee from the late 90's for $700 easily...Is there a comparable Mandolin?...I was looking at Eastman and of course would like an F-style but really want one that sounds and plays great mostly. Some I've heard sound pretty shrill and harsh on the high frequencies which I frickin' hate...Recommendations?
    You're playing an instrument that sells for $2K new, so you'd be quite lucky to find one of comparable quality for $700 used. Silverangels are designed for a "deep, woody" sound, according to Mr. Ratcliff, and you say you "hate" a "shrill, harsh" sound, which may influence your consideration of an Eastman. I love Eastman mandolins, own four of 'em, but the "Eastman sound" does tend toward clear treble rather than deep woody. So maybe that's not your direction.

    You're playing an f-hole, A-model instrument; is that OK? "Of course" you'd "like an F-style" but you're gonna pay extra for that scroll and points; you'll never stay under $1K in the quality range where you'd like to be. I think one of the top-end Kentucky or Loar mandolins might be worth consideration. If you're thinking "used," checking the Cafe classified ads will give you a wide range of possibilities.
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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    I think one of the top-end Kentucky or Loar mandolins might be worth consideration. If you're thinking "used," checking the Cafe classified ads will give you a wide range of possibilities.
    Since he's a newbie we might want to clarify "...top-end Kentucky or The Loar mandolins might be worth consideration."

    Larry

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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    There is a Big Muddy in the Classifieds that was listed yesterday. It is an M-4 (top model) in a hard case for $350. it is an excellent bargain, if it is not already sold.

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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    Agree with Allen's assessment.$700 mandolins and a Silverangel are quite different levels of mandolin.

    If he is looking for deep and woody, I don't know if anything sub $1k will fully satisfy that way.
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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimzartman View Post
    So I'm seeking your wisdom.

    A friend of mine who owns a studio lent me one I really like and haven't felt this bonded to playing an instrument since I fist discovered the guitar. The thing is, I went to guitar center and sam ash and thought the mandolins sucked. So I looked up the one he lent me and it's a A-style by Silver Angel Mandolins.
    Recommendations?
    Get a used A-style silver angel if it grabbed you by the...neck... go with that and dont look back.
    You only go round once.
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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    I really appreciate all the advice guys. So much to consider.

    The thing I love about the Silver Angel is the woody tone. It is an A-style. Just spent the last two hours on it and it reminds me of the 67' Martin I started out on.

    You guys have also helped me re-calibrate my expectations which I think really needed to happen. Maybe I can borrow this one longer and save up. It's hard cause if it's like guitar... I didn't learn to play guitar, I learned to play "my guitar" and bonding with an instrument is so personal. It's tempting when there is a 70's Ibanez near me for $700 but I don't think I'll be happy unless I wait and get what I like.
    Jim Zartman

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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    Hey Jim,

    Pass along a hello to the folks back home for me, (I lived in Cincinnati for quite a while). The thing is, I think I know the mandolin and friend your talking about. Perhaps Rick and All These Sounds? If so, ask him about me! I owned his mandolin at one time...

    Anyhow, I'll go ahead and put The Loar out there for your consideration. But if you have been to Guitar Center and Sam Ash, you may have already tried them. The thing is, you probably won't be able to find many American made options for $700. If you can live with some of the Asian mandolins a deal can be had.

    If you would like to contact me privately, I would be glad to kick around a few ideas with you. It sounds like we like the same "deep, dark" tone out of a mandolin. I think you could find something for $1000 for sure that would suit your wants and needs. Perhaps not a dream mando, but something that sounds good, plays good and isn't shrill and crappy...

    info@shawnbrockmusic.com

    I'm still trying to do a few videos on The Loar line, but here's one of them for the cheapest mandolin they make.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhevlqaVdLw

    Oh, and I think there's a used Silverangel A on the classifieds here, or at least there was a few weeks ago. I'm sure you would be happy with that one.
    Shawn Brock
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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    I've owned over 30 mid-70s MIJ (made in Japan) mandolins. Some were great for the money, some were just not. Carved too thick, way too heavy and an acoustic mess. Then again, some were great.

    I'd say if the Silver Angel caught your interest, that should be a candidate. I'd think an upper eschelon "The Loar," "Kentucky," or "Eastman" would work well. I don't quite like the asthetic of the Eastman mandolins though.

    The Collings is the answer. Get an MT and learn it backwards and forwards. It'd be a lifetime instrument for sure, not that you won't succomb to MAS though. . .

    f-d
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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    you could always try to find a flatiron A5 from the late 80's or early 90's. They are very good and affordable - probably averaged out at $1700. Some go for less...

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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimzartman View Post
    I really appreciate all the advice guys. So much to consider.

    The thing I love about the Silver Angel is the woody tone. It is an A-style. Just spent the last two hours on it and it reminds me of the 67' Martin I started out on.

    You guys have also helped me re-calibrate my expectations which I think really needed to happen. Maybe I can borrow this one longer and save up. It's hard cause if it's like guitar... I didn't learn to play guitar, I learned to play "my guitar" and bonding with an instrument is so personal. It's tempting when there is a 70's Ibanez near me for $700 but I don't think I'll be happy unless I wait and get what I like.
    Oww, that's tough. Were it me I'd go have a look, at least. It's right in your wheelhouse, pricewise and like I stated before I've a soft spot for the 70s era Pac-Rim guitars and mandos. Go check it out. It can only not measure up tonewise, but if it does...

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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    There's a blonde Alvarez on the Nashville CL for $350.00 as I post this. The seller says he's on Music Row. It's an F.

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    Lost my boots in transit terzinator's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Mandolin for Professional Guitarist- seeking wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by fatt-dad View Post
    The Collings is the answer. Get an MT and learn it backwards and forwards. It'd be a lifetime instrument for sure, not that you won't succomb to MAS though. . .

    f-d
    That'd be my vote, too. They make a wide-nut (1-3/16" vs 1-1/8") version that I now have, and I love it. (Helps that transition from guitar, I think.) You should be able to find a good used one for $1500-1800.

    f-d's right about the MAS, too. It's inevitable.

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