CHEAP beginner Mandolin while I build my IV F5 Kit. ADVICE??

[StuartGold]

I need some advice and this is probably the best place on earth to ask it! I am currently building a IV F5 kit. It will probably take me a few months to actually get it to a place that I can play it. As a total beginner to mandolin, in the meantime, I would like to start to learn to play. I already play banjo and guitar and have built both (Gibson style Arch top Banjo and OM Martin style guitar) but I know nothing about playing the mandolin. The more I get into building the F5, the more I really want to jump in. So here's my problem; I need to find a really cheap probably A style Mandolin that I can start to learn on while I finish the IV kit. I would like it to be under $150 ( probably Johnson, Rogue, Washburn, Savannah ... etc). I am not afraid to re-do the set-up (nut, bridge or neck ) and have all the tools necessary. What model would be best to buy for this either right out of the box or after a quick set-up?

[Eric C.]

I would go rogue as an inexpensive starter to fiddle around with until your mandolin is finished. I used an Indiana for a month or so as a trial instrument when I first picked up mandolin and that was playable as well.

[Pete Jenner]

I'm just starting my first two scratch builds and am currently mandolinless. To rectify the situation I put a deposit on an Eastman MD-504 today (It'll take a few months to pay off). This will be my reference instrument with the added bonus of being able to get some practice in again. I can't really afford it (especially after forking out for tools and materials for the builds) but there is no way I could settle for a $150 mandolin, it would just sound like fingernails scraping down a blackboard to me. At least the Eastman will provide standards in terms of sound, build quality and specs to reach or exceed.

Sorry that probably doesn't help much

[Marty Jacobson]

Pretty much anything will work as a temporary beater if you practice setting it up (a good thing to practice before you finish your kit, anyway).

[Pete Jenner]

Pretty much anything will work as a temporary beater if you practice setting it up (a good thing to practice before you finish your kit, anyway).

After he's set it up once, what does he do with it - mess it up and start again?

[Marty Jacobson]

Yeah, no need to mess it up, either -- there will be things to tweak that you won't notice the first go-around. Leveling/crowning the frets evenly, dressing fret ends, nut slot position, nut slot shape, etc., etc.

[Pete Jenner]

Point taken.

[Eric C.]

I'm just starting my first two scratch builds and am currently mandolinless. To rectify the situation I put a deposit on an Eastman MD-504 today (It'll take a few months to pay off). This will be my reference instrument with the added bonus of being able to get some practice in again. I can't really afford it (especially after forking out for tools and materials for the builds) but there is no way I could settle for a $150 mandolin, it would just sound like fingernails scraping down a blackboard to me. At least the Eastman will provide standards in terms of sound, build quality and specs to reach or exceed.

Sorry that probably doesn't help much

A properly set up "$150" mandolin would in no way sound horrible. Why spend months saving up for something you can't afford just for something you aren't going to use once the build is finished? You could use the extra months and money on getting acquainted with the mandolin and even afford 3-6 months of lessons with Mike Marshall?

Your thought process on his original statement of "CHEAP" makes absolutely no sense to me. With him being a true beginner, I see the extra months saving to be a huge waste of time if the only reason for purchasing a low end instrument is to use it during the time it is going to take him to build his kit.

[Pete Jenner]

You missed my point completely Eric.
Rather than getting upset, re-read what I wrote.

[tracker51187]

There are a lot of people to who $150 is the upper end of their budget. Great if you can afford a 505 or better but this is about having fun and not looking down on cheap mandolins. Good luck to you Stuartgold and remember, many people began on mandolins such as the rogue. In fact, if you research the threads, you will find the links to Rob Meldrums tips and ebook on setting up that very instrument. We would all love a more expensive mandolin but needs must.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes with the build.

[houseworker]

I'd be looking at the Rover RM-25S, currently $114.95 from Folkmusician.com. Solid top, Robert's famous set up, pretty much ready to go (you might want to order a better set of strings).

[StuartGold]

Hey Folks! Thanks for all the feedback. it is VERY appreciated. I've narrowed my choices to two and I would love some feedback. For some reason, I'm very partial to oval holes over "F" holes in "A" style mandolins. The two that I have narrowed it to are as follows:

1. Rogue Mandolin with Oval Soundhole about $70

2. Washburn M1SDLB A-Style Mandolin $163

I guess that the big question is. Is it worth it to spend almost $100 more to get the Washburn? Aesthetically, I like the look. Anybody know about what it might take to set these two up to play the best? I don't mind spending the extra money if it is worth it but if it's a toss-up, I'd rather not. Please advise ASAP!!!

[houseworker]

The Washburn has the advantage of a solid top, but I very much doubt it's $50 better than the Rover I linked to What they'll take to get set up will depend on who you buy them from.

The Washburn is discussed here.

[belbein]

I bought a "cheap" A style mandolin for my office. I bought it for $100 or $150, used. It's a POS "Lotus" ("lotus" decal-stenciled on the headstock). Once I set it up, it sounds WONderful, better than my Gibson.

I strongly recommend that you buy used, and buy cheap. It's always great to have a cheap POS that you can take camping.

[Pete Jenner]

I'm going to eat a bit of humble pie here but just a bit. I was wrong about the cheap 'beaters'.

Today I was in my local music shop (store) to make another payment on the 504. A fellow walked in the door with a no name acoustic/electric mandolin in hand. It was a well used instrument which he said he bought at a garage sale for 35 bucks (AU). He'd done a bit of set up work without really knowing much about set ups. That work consisted of lowering the action both at the bridge and the nut. The bridge was ill fitting and the nut slots were cut very deep but the action was great.

We played for a while, me on the 504 and him on the beater and I was struck by how sweet the tone of his nameless ply topped mado was.
It lacked volume but the tone was really very pleasant. I gave him a few tips on fitting his bridge and filing away the top of the nut.
I came away from that meeting with the knowledge that that 'beater' was going to serve him well at less than a 20th of the price of the 504. I did have a chuckle though when he bought a capo that was worth $5 more than he paid for the mandolin.

I'm glad I met him - we're going to get together and bash out some tunes.

So in your case Stuart you are probably doing the right thing. The only caveat to that is my original point about having a highish end reference, but if your only going to build the one kit, then it's probably a waste of money getting anything more expensive. Let us know what you buy and maybe post a picture.



Eric, excuse my ignorance, but until you mentioned Mike Marshall I had never heard of him. A bit of googling later and all I can say is - 7408 miles (11922 km) is a bit too far to fly for lessons.

[Phil Goodson]

I suspect that he was referring to Mike Marshall's lessons at the Academy of Bluegrass ONLINE. Usually $90 per 3 months. NFI

http://www.academyofbluegrass.com/

[Pete Jenner]

OIC cheers.

[StuartGold]

Well...... I pulled the trigger this morning and ordered the Oval hole Rogue "A"model. With tax (yes! California is now going to be collecting tax on Amazon) it came to about $75. There are a couple of videos on Youtube showing this Mandolin after a set-up and it sounded like a passable facsimile of a real mandolin. The IV Kit that I am making is taking much longer than I had anticipated (big surprise huh?). I remember that quote on I believe this site comparing guitar building to building a mandolin; " A mandolin is half the size and four times the work"......So....... I imagine that I'll have a couple of months at least, to bang away on the beater and see if I can learn something before the kit is done. I can only hope that after all that work, the kit sounds better and is easier to play than the Rogue. We will see!

[bmac]

Although it is an inexpensive instrument, to my knowledge it works the same as almost any other mandolin... You are apparently handy so I would not hesitate, after a few weeks or a month, examine the set up and see how well it is set up, primarily at the nut, which, on inexpensive instruments is almost never adjusted for comfortable play. In any case you have an instrument which can be a learning experience from both the playing and the "understanding" perspective... and that will be important as you gradually work on your build. I thinnk if you google "mandolin set up" you will find several sites which should be helpful. frets.com has lots of information you will find helpful. also you might want to get a couple more sets of strings. Normally they are awful on imported instruments and may tend to self destruct.

[Leroy]

I started my mandolin journey with similar first steps.

Here's my story.

I had never played a mandolin, but wanted to try one out to see if it would suit me. I bought a Rogue 100A for $45.00 and found that it wasn't as hard to finger and pick as I had feared. I have built a lot of acoustic stringed instruments and knew that it's sound could be improved with a little surgery. Here is a link to a photo album showing what I did. A definite improvement.

Click here




I have no problems with engineered wood instruments, but wanted a solid wood traditional designed mando for reference. I bought a IV style A kit. It was a pretty straight forward build and produced a beautiful looking and sounding instrument.

Click here




These made me want to try out a custom design of my own. I wanted to try a slightly longer scale with a radius fret board. It worked out great and is a joy to play.

Click here




I then decided to build a companion mandolin for my Octar Irish Bouzouki. I like to experiment and push the boundaries of design.

Click here




All make beautiful noise and are different in their own ways.

You will learn much on your journey Grasshopper.

[StuartGold]

Wow.... I'm really impressed with the re-build on the Rogue 100A. Just out of curiosity, How much better was the Rogue after the initial setup, fixing the nut, bridge and intonation, new strings...etc and How much better than that did it sound after the rebuild? Looks like a very cool thing to do and not too difficult. I'm thinking that you could have also used the small tooth xacto saw blade to take off the back but it would not be as fast.

[Leroy]

Thanks, it sounded much better after the modifications.

Click here and go to my website. More pictures and explanations. I figured that I spent about $65.00 total. I did have the electronics in my parts box and paint already though.

[Jim Rowland]

I needed a travel mando for one of my grandsons and (partlly out of curiosity) ordered a Rogue 100A (49 something shipped) to fill the bill. It is a garishly handsome thang and since I was in a hurry,I just pulled frets 15 through 20 and threw them away,set the bridge and lowered the action,and buzzeeng! no more buzzeeng. Not bad at all,thoroughly playable,and un-ugly. Leroy did it the right way,of course,but I was in a hurreee---- and I am lazeee.
Jim

[Rob Meldrum]

While writing an ebook on how to set up a mandolin, I used three Rogues (the $49.00 model). Each had its own issues, which was great for me because it gave me the opportunity to write before-during-after and not miss any steps. I smile when people bash these inexpensive instruments. They are a lot better than the entry-level instruments that were available in the 1960s when I got my first guitar. And after a proper, thorough setup and a new set of strings you will have a very playable instrument.

The setup ebook is available free to mandolincafe members. Just email me at rob.meldrum@gmail.com and ask for your copy. The reply I send has the ebook and links to before and after videos of one of the Rogues. Check it out for yourself!

Rob

before setup link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLRlF...feature=relmfu

after setup link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuHCX...feature=relmfu